Haren is ready for a trade and I can't feel my face.
by Mad_Villain on Jul 21, 2010 7:12 AM PDT
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This started as a fanshot but my fingers typed it into a fanpost. Apparently Dan Haren is open to giving up life in the desert as a rattlesnake for something more lucrative. Something more likely to make waves in the postseason. Something, I imagine to be an angel, a bag of rocks, or who knows, a monk?
Haren says he would like to stay on the west coast and, while he's not the cheapest pitcher out there, he's under control for at least 2 more years. I would be interested in this guy getting a look. He's the type of pitcher that worries me as part of a competitive team. If the Dodgers, Giants, or Rockies make a move for him I see a much tougher sprint to the finish line.
I imagine a team in our own division would want our women and all of our jewels to give up Haren but, at the same time, I think they're desperate. They suck. It's a fact. They need relief pitching and guess who has got it?
Thoughts?
This FanPost was written by a member of the Gaslamp Ball community and does not necessarily reflect the views of the Gaslamp Ball managers or SB Nation.
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He's under contract through 2013
so it’d be quite a while.
"This is no ordinary honey!"
Bolts From The Blue - Heavy with the facts, slightly less heavy with the opinions.
by Zach (maestro876) on Jul 21, 2010 8:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Ah.
Yeah it’s possible. They have said they aren’t interested in starting pitching, and that Lee was just a special case.
"This is no ordinary honey!"
Bolts From The Blue - Heavy with the facts, slightly less heavy with the opinions.
by Zach (maestro876) on Jul 21, 2010 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions
With the Pettitte injury though, that could change things.
I honestly don’t buy Cashman’s motion of confidence for Sergio Mitre. When the Rays and Red Sox have the rotations they do, they aren’t going to rely on Mitre (or Chan Ho or even Joba) for 5-6 weeks.
It might not be Haren, but it could be someone— I bet it’s Lilly.
jtb yl1
by Allen J. Kha on Jul 21, 2010 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Also Hughes got knocked around last night.
And has thrown some pretty big stinkers over the past month. I wouldn’t be surprised to see someone like Haren or Oswalt in pinstripes by the end of the month.
I would
I don’t think the Yankees want to commit to anything more than the 2010 season if they were to trade for a temporary replacement pitcher.
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
Cliff Lee is going to replace Vazquez
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
Pettitte is always signed for one year
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
he's always almost retiring too, though.
my point is, they are certainly in a position to take on a veteran pitcher with 2-3 years left on his contract, and probably will if the price is right.
Sooooo.....anyone read any rumors on Dan Haren and the Yankees the past couple of days?
Because I sure did. Weird. WHO COULD HAVE FORESEEN THIS DEVELOPMENT??
Kevin Towers?
Oh internet, what a wicked web you weave.
by Mad_Villain on Jul 24, 2010 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd strongly consider making a play for Haren if I were Hoyer
although we’ve been told the price for him right now would be “prohibitive”. It’s possible that could come down as we get closer to the deadline.
"This is no ordinary honey!"
Bolts From The Blue - Heavy with the facts, slightly less heavy with the opinions.
by Zach (maestro876) on Jul 21, 2010 8:51 AM PDT reply actions
If only Happ didn't suck.
"This is no ordinary honey!"
Bolts From The Blue - Heavy with the facts, slightly less heavy with the opinions.
by Zach (maestro876) on Jul 21, 2010 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
I respect Haren, but he while he could give a contending team some good starts,
overall I don’t think he’s that much better than what we’ve got. And to give up a lot to go sideways makes little sense; sure, adding depth is good, but not at that price (in terms of what you’d have to give up and/or price, I don’t think).
Plus, it’s not as though Petco helped him any last Friday night.
He's worlds better than Correia, LeBlanc, and Garland.
He’s probably a bit better than Richard.
"This is no ordinary honey!"
Bolts From The Blue - Heavy with the facts, slightly less heavy with the opinions.
by Zach (maestro876) on Jul 21, 2010 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Theoretically
But have you seen the stats on his last 10 starts? Most pretty mediocre. Plus, did you see hathead’s post above on the first-half/second-half splits for Haren?
Historically, you’re right about his being “world’s” better. But this year, he’s arguably just a bit better than all those guys except Correia, who has looked better of late.
We’ll see how Haren does against the Mets tonight…. And of course we’ll see how Correia does against the Pirates Friday (and Richard and Garland against the Braves before that).
Leblanc was just fine yesterday: sure, he has had some bad starts, but so his Haren (thus his 7-7 record and 4.60 e.r.a.), and his run support has stunk.
The sabermetric stats say somewhat otherwise (I could care less about splits if they don't tell the complete story)
This season, his BABIP is an outrageous .351. For a guy’s whose typical BABIP hovers around the league average of .300 (which is typical of any decent ML pitcher), that number is ridiculous. Considering BABIP doesn’t consider HR, a lot of his “poor” pitching can be attributed to a bad supporting cast and some bad luck.
And yes, while he has a clear problem with giving up homers, that 21 number for this season is skewed by that ballpark they have out there. Even if he shelled a few here too, I’ll go out on a limb and say that confidence is just as much of a factor. He’ll improve if he plays here at Petco, no doubt. Plus his 13% HR/FB is due to regress a tiny bit anyway.
And then consider that even though his ERA is 4.60, his xFIP (which is supposed to align with ERA in terms of scale) is 3.42. That’s really good. We’re dealing with a great pitcher that usually puts up 3.50 ERAs and 3.00 xFIPs. At times that’s ace material— and Dan Haren was in fact ace quality at times.
And consider that he has a reasonable GB% of 40.2% this season— and it’s typically higher— that means that he’s probably the recipient of some really bad luck fly-ball wise. Perhaps it’s something to do with him considering that he consistently gives up around 20 HR a year, the 21HR he’s given up so far is a ridiculous figure that surely can’t hold up.
There’s not argument saying that Dan Haren is a crap pitcher. None— everyone who freaking get on two knees, beg, and be a lap dog to get Haren…. for the right price, of course. Everyone wants a guy who’s has a positive reputation and eats innings, strikes people out like an ace, and is good at that.
What won’t bring Haren here is in fact that price, especially considering the trade would be inter-division and we’re not as deep down the farm as we would like.
jtb yl1
by Allen J. Kha on Jul 21, 2010 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
- everyone will get on two knees
jtb yl1
by Allen J. Kha on Jul 21, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Well argued, Allen
Points well-taken.
I of course was never saying he was a crap pitcher (not saying you were saying I’d said that!), but you offered some good possibilities for why he’s having a mediocre year. I’d still have concerns about his 2nd half track record, but anything will be a gamble: standing pat is a gamble, too, obviously.
We agree on the “price” factor, and Zach says Hoyer says that price would be “prohibitive.” So, as he posits, the only way it would possibly happen is if the price goes down as we get closer to the deadline; I suspect it won’t come down enough, and someone will get there first.
I haven't looked at his splits specifically to recall anything
But it could be attributed to the same type of wear Chris Young experienced in Texas. If it’s a singular trend during his time with the D-Backs (and less so with the A’s), then my conjecture could be plausible.
jtb yl1
by Allen J. Kha on Jul 21, 2010 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions
And the price will never go down for that type of commodity.
Not to a level we can afford, or want to afford.
jtb yl1
by Allen J. Kha on Jul 21, 2010 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Haren would make this rotation unstoppable.
Don’t underestimate that guy’s stuff. Even when he gives up 8 runs he strikes out 10
Oh internet, what a wicked web you weave.
by Mad_Villain on Jul 21, 2010 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes, he's got great stuff
and better than that of every other starter we’ve got except for Latos — maybe Ballsley could get him more consistent, and playing on a contending team could up his focus; but his second halves have been mediocre at best, even when not playing on teams completely out of it.
I was at the game last Friday night, and feared the Haren-Garland match-up; just one game (but check his others), but who won?… Haren got touched up and then even gave up an HR to Headley following his bad inning.
Sure, he has got great stuff — and would add to the team’s depth, but the point is at what cost?… The best thing about getting him might be stopping him from going to one of our rivals…. And yet after last weekend and looking at his stats (especially his second half ones),I don’t fear facing him that much (anymore) anyway, although maybe you’re right, and I’m underestimating him a bit.
Of course he’s better than Correia, but even Kevin has been striking out 8-9 guys in 6-7 innings the last few starts.
I’ll move somewhat your guys’ way and say it’d be better than a “sideways” move, but it still depends big-time on what the asking price was; and it’d remain a gamble, given Haren’s year thus far and 2nd half track record overall.
While we are talking about unstoppable, how about?
Halladay
Lee
Latos
Wainwright
I’m just saying.. if we traded for those THREE, plus Latos… we would be unstoppable.
jus’ sayin’
:)
Are we talking trade possibilities, or fantasy?
I like to keep my fantasies, um, sexual.
by wegotballsley on Jul 21, 2010 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Why can't you feel your face?
Does this have to do with drugs?
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Jul 21, 2010 10:26 PM PDT reply actions
arms are too short
"I post like canned meat."
by Hormel on Jul 21, 2010 11:26 PM PDT up reply actions 7 recs
New reporting about Haren today
Apparently the DBacks are getting more “reasonable” about asking price for Haren. Now they’re open to accepting prospects rather than players on a major league roster.
#GeterdoneJed
"This is no ordinary honey!"
Bolts From The Blue - Heavy with the facts, slightly less heavy with the opinions.
by Zach (maestro876) on Jul 22, 2010 4:33 PM PDT reply actions
DBacks want pitching for Haren. Starters and/or relievers, MLB ready or close.
Luebke + Stauffer + Poreda? Some other combination of relievers?
"This is no ordinary honey!"
Bolts From The Blue - Heavy with the facts, slightly less heavy with the opinions.
by Zach (maestro876) on Jul 22, 2010 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions
They might want another player too but that just might do it.
I wonder how much they value Poreda though. It would probably take more— maybe Carvajal or Dykstra, or am I totally off?
jtb yl1
by Allen J. Kha on Jul 22, 2010 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Both have some upside
I’m not quite willing to give up on Carvajal yet, and we could sucker the D’Backs by selling Dykstra by his “Thome-like” potential? Just speculative, they probably wouldn’t ever buy that.
And fyi, Poreda’s not that much better. In the words of a particular minor league I know, “Poreda is sh*t.” And as a frame of reference, he says Justin Smoak “is nasty”.
jtb yl1
by Allen J. Kha on Jul 23, 2010 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions
This is laughable
If I drank coffee, I’m pretty sure I would have just spilled it everywhere.
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
by Wonko on Jul 23, 2010 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks
It’s not like I’m trying to convince myself that they are good but they aren’t organization fillers either
jtb yl1
by Allen J. Kha on Jul 23, 2010 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, Carvajal is
He’s basically a backup outfielder who goes to whatever team doesn’t have depth there.
Dykstra would be filler if he wasn’t a 1st round pick. Actually, he probably wouldn’t even still be around if he wasn’t a 1st round pick.
Poreda still has talent and can get people out. His floor is future LOOGY, his upside is future closer.
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
Thanks for the update on Carvajal (I remember reading stuff back when they said he had promise)
And I’ve never rated Dykstra, and that was hopeful optimism. I think he is crap, to be completely honest, even in his WF days.
And as for Poreda, my opinion I state on here comes from my lengthy battles trying to defend Poreda’s potential, only to get responses of “I’ve played him, seen him, and He’s shit.” So there you go, fwiw.
jtb yl1
by Allen J. Kha on Jul 23, 2010 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
"He's shit"
Is not descriptive enough to value in any way shape or form.
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
I don't disagree
But I’ve been brainwashed so oh well.
jtb yl1
by Allen J. Kha on Jul 23, 2010 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
And even if the opinion is very crude or even bad
It comes from a player who has played against him, and has even played the game at the professional level in general. Even if I disagree or note that the facts disagree, I wholeheartedly believe that the player’s opinion still merits respect, perhaps over mine.
I know this feeling isn’t as relevant anymore with the new breed of GMs popping up in front offices, but I still hold that sentiment to some extent and will respect and scout and player I see for what they do.
jtb yl1
by Allen J. Kha on Jul 23, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
I just trust what scouts say over what a single player says
Or more accurately, what reporters who talk to scouts say.
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
So do I
And I know plenty of scouts
jtb yl1
by Allen J. Kha on Jul 23, 2010 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions
That may be some peoples' impression of him
though the Padres certainly saw enough in him to want him in a trade. At the very lease, if there’s one organization that can take an arm like his and turn it into something productive, it’s the Padres.
"This is no ordinary honey!"
Bolts From The Blue - Heavy with the facts, slightly less heavy with the opinions.
by Zach (maestro876) on Jul 23, 2010 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Hey I'll take a chance on any southpaw with that velocity
He’s the type of guy that scouts crave coming out of high school or college
jtb yl1
by Allen J. Kha on Jul 23, 2010 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
And he's 23
So let the Padres’ superb pitching development organization work with him a while and see what they come up with.
"This is no ordinary honey!"
Bolts From The Blue - Heavy with the facts, slightly less heavy with the opinions.
by Zach (maestro876) on Jul 23, 2010 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Still can't believe we burned a 1st rounder on Dykstra.
I really wish they hadn’t signed him, and gotten the comp pick in 2009, a year when the organization actually made sane draft choices.
"This is no ordinary honey!"
Bolts From The Blue - Heavy with the facts, slightly less heavy with the opinions.
by Zach (maestro876) on Jul 23, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
If you look at that draft
That entire half of the first round sucked. The last time I looked there was virtually nobody who was doing well.
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
Eh
I guess that’s not as true as I remember it. Yeah, its a mystery. We could have stolen Christian Friedrich from the Rockies or gone with a different bat in Lonnie Chisenhall or a few other decent pitching options. Or we might have just picked Decker earlier.
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
The guy the Yankees could pay enough money to keep from going to college?
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
*The guy the Yankees couldn't
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
Well yeah, but I the fact that there were alternatives was my point
Plus he probably wouldn’t have scaled down his figure to stay near home, which could have put us in play.
The fact that the Yankees couldn’t sign his was less of a money decision and more of a wanting to go to school decision— if we had drafted him though, it could have been a different story.
jtb yl1
by Allen J. Kha on Jul 23, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
No, it wouldn't have been
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
Well you're right
And that’s why the Yankees still drafted him in the first round when no one else would touch him in any of the opening rounds.
jtb yl1
by Allen J. Kha on Jul 23, 2010 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I still don't know why they signed him.
There was that whole injury issue, where they should have just said “never mind, we’re not doing it.” But they didn’t, and signed him anyway.
"This is no ordinary honey!"
Bolts From The Blue - Heavy with the facts, slightly less heavy with the opinions.
by Zach (maestro876) on Jul 23, 2010 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Yankees apparently very interested in Haren.
I’m not sure if he can block a trade to them or not.
"This is no ordinary honey!"
Bolts From The Blue - Heavy with the facts, slightly less heavy with the opinions.
by Zach (maestro876) on Jul 23, 2010 12:44 PM PDT reply actions
Haren has a partial no-trade.
And I don’t think the Yankees are in that list.
jtb yl1
by Allen J. Kha on Jul 23, 2010 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Haren is gone.
Traded to the Angels.
"This is no ordinary honey!"
Bolts From The Blue - Heavy with the facts, slightly less heavy with the opinions.
by Zach (maestro876) on Jul 25, 2010 3:22 PM PDT reply actions
I checked out MLBTradeRumors
and they hadn’t even mentioned the Angels…
We know who is on the block – but there is no way on predicting who will get them.
"I post like canned meat."
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