AAA to Escondido (by way of Elsinore)
by SeeAnFrockOh on Jul 20, 2010 11:57 PM PDT
Email
PrintThe UT is reporting that the Padres ownership group is close to reaching an agreement to buy the Portland Beavers and move them to a new facility in Escondido. According to the UT the team would likely play its 2011 season in Lake Elsinore.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/jul/20/padres-affiliate-may-be-move/
As a North County resident I really hope this happens and I'm pleased to hear that we could be watching them as soon as next season. Anyone have a good Escondido team name?
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Escondido Beavers?
Why change the complete product?
I still feel more confident in Burroughs pitching than Mujica
by LetBurroughsPitch on Jul 21, 2010 1:13 AM PDT reply actions
Maybe something SD related....
Escondido Wave
Escondido Sol
Escondido Haas
Escondido Wild (Wild animal Park)
????????
Escondido Escondidans?????
Oh internet, what a wicked web you weave.
Escondido
Methamphetamines?
"There are two great tragedies in life: One is not getting what one wants; the other is getting it."
"I like to consider the padres' team as a microcosm, or symbolic representation of my daily endeavor towards inner salvation." — Mysterious Cloaked Padre Fan
We could get real creative
And call them the
Escondido Padres
Here’s looking at you (fill in the team)…
jtb yl1
by Allen J. Kha on Jul 21, 2010 8:44 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Escondildos
Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? ◔ヮ◔
Uncommon Sportsman :: Absurdity in play
Too obvious
Oh internet, what a wicked web you weave.
by Mad_Villain on Jul 21, 2010 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Escondido Unicorns
Escondido Gwynners
Escondido Wet Pants
by theodore donald kerabatsos on Jul 21, 2010 11:04 AM PDT reply actions
El Hijos de Escondido
Sons of Escondido (Fathers of San Diego)
El Ninos would work too.
All the fun is in the cheap seats!
The best idea I heard
Was to change the name to the Friars and make their primary color brown.
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
by Wonko on Jul 21, 2010 12:24 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
my name is Kevin
and I support this message
by kevintheoman on Jul 21, 2010 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Giving credit where credit is due
It was Logan Jenkins writing for the SDUT that said this. Link
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
What about all those nitty-gritty details?
Like, the PCL north and south divisions would have to be realigned, and the schedule at Lake Elsinore would be a bear. Are there enough fans to go around? The Storm’s gate receipts would be impacted. Then there’s the A-level entertainment factor (fish tossing contests, etc.) vs the more serious AAA atmosphere. And really, can Escondido move fast enough to build a ballpark in a year? The development they’ve talked about looks like a multi-year enterprise, especially with city government involved. This looks like something that will preoccupy the Padres front office for an extended period of time.
I went to a Richmond Braves game a couple of years ago
There was a hostess cupcake and milk bottle dancing in the aisles.
"I post like canned meat."
The Storm will definitely lose on this deal
The Padres will have to compensate them.
Also, Fenway sells out. Petco doesn’t.
This might be 1 + 1 = 1.5
"I post like canned meat."
I really wonder about that
I’ve never seen what the breakdown is of people who go to Storm games. Is it really that many people from Escondido, San Marcos, Poway? Obviously there’s some, but is that the bulk?
From what I've observed and what people I've talked to told me
That answer is probably no. I mean Escondido and the like are only an hour or so away from Lake Elsinore, but I doubt many of the general public would drive that hour north towards a different county, rather than south towards San Diego. The target fan base apparently would be the surrounding Riverside areas.
And you’d have to figure that the Padres would cover some of the Storms losses (or operating costs), especially if the Padres-led consortium buys out the Beavers and forces a land-share.
jtb yl1
by Allen J. Kha on Jul 21, 2010 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions
- the people I’ve talked to being scouts who often watch California League games as well as college, etc, for the most part.
jtb yl1
by Allen J. Kha on Jul 21, 2010 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Are these professional baseball scouts in the habit of taking surveys of the fans sitting around them
to find out average travel distances to get to the Lake Elsinore Diamond?
Haha
I’m not claiming their validity but you can generally figure that most of their fan base is from the immediate surrounding areas.
jtb yl1
by Allen J. Kha on Jul 22, 2010 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Because they go to a lot of games and know what they're talking about
I go to a lot of Virginia college baseball games. I meet a lot of scouts who are there for many games too. If someone where to ask them who went to UVA baseball games (say come Regionals time), I’d trust them to know that it’s mostly Charlottesville/Waynesboro/Staunton residents and dedicated alumni from some surrounding areas (like father away, DC and Richmond).
After a while, people who watch a lot of games have an idea for the demographics, at least in the small type of environment that minor league baseball offers.
jtb yl1
by Allen J. Kha on Jul 22, 2010 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
"We've plenty of hearsay and conjecture. Those are kinds of evidence."
The opinion that the majority of Storm fans come from the Lake Elsinore area is logical and I am in general agreement with it. The problem I have with your post is that you seem to attempt to give undue weight and authority to your opinion simply because you happen to talk to scouts on a regular basis.
That only makes your guiding evidence in this discussion anecdotal, because it comes from the mouths of people who are not trained market analysts, but player analysts. They might have a trained eye, but their conclusions really don’t pertain to this discussion. Especially because you haven’t mentioned one source that is uniquely familiar with the Storm or their fan base.
The real issue in this discussion is not whether or not North County fans make up a majority of the Storm’s attendance/revenue stream, but whether or not they provide a significant enough portion of the Storm’s attendance/revenue that the team would fail without their patronage.
Where will people from Temecula, Fallbrook, etc go?
It definitely makes the Storm’s drawing area smaller.
The other side of the coin – will an AAA team in Escondido increase baseball awareness
throughout the area and increase attendance at all 3 parks? Such as, let’s go see the new
pitcher who just move up from SA or someone working their way back from the DL.
"I post like canned meat."
The Storm Entertainment Group should look into doing a study on this.
I know they were upset when rumors of the Moorad Group moving the Beavers to San Marcos came out because it could potentially hurt their market.
Naturally they would likely assume the same would be true of a move to Escondido, even though they have yet to comment on the new proposal.
It seems that the Moorad Group could care less if the Single A affiliate is hurt, so the study likely wouldn’t do anything to stop the move to Escondido, but it would allow them to see if their revenue would truly be hurt so much that they would need to move to another city.
Southern California is already crowded enough with baseball teams. I’m not sure where they would go. Hopefully both teams can operate successfully in the same general area.
Southern California has the California League.
So of course there would be a glut of teams. I’m just curious to know how many people would really drive up from Escondido or even Fallbrook for a Storm game. My mind tells me it would take a pretty dedicated fan, and that’s probably not present outside of the periphery of Lake Elsinore.
A land-share with the Beavers would adversely affect both franchises, but I doubt a AAA presence in Escondido or North County would. Ask Boston and their surrounding affiliates.
jtb yl1
by Allen J. Kha on Jul 22, 2010 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes, I am well aware of the existence of the California League.
I was merely stating fact. Not expressing wonder at said fact.
You say that a fan would have to be dedicated to travel from North County to Lake Elsinore, but I would say they would have to be just as dedicated to travel from North County to downtown San Diego.
Escondido is equidistant from PetCo and the Lake Elsinore Diamond. Both offer close to an hour commute. But the Diamond has the advantage of having less traffic congestion, cheaper parking, and cheaper tickets.
In that sense I think Lake Elsinore has more to offer the casual North County baseball fan. Think of the coach looking to take his little league team to professional game at an affordable price. The parents that want to treat their kid(s) to a sporting event and not put up with the hassle of navigating downtown. Think of the CSU San Marcos student without a baseball team who wants to get s*$tfaced on the cheap and yell abuse at ball players barely older than they are.
These people will look at the two options before them and maybe choose the Storm a few times during a given season. Sure the quality of play is nowhere near as good, but sometimes it’s just about having a cheap night out.
And I am not sure how much Boston can contribute to this discussion. None of their affiliates come anywhere close to sharing markets (AAA – Pawtucket, RI; AA – Portland, ME; HiA – Salem, VA; LoA – Greenville, SC).
The Boston reference was just to indicate that the could successfully have minor league teams within a certain vicinity (at least at AA and above)
And just a quick random tidbit about Salem, that happens to capture the Roanoke TV market as well, which is fair sized. Comparable to San Bernadino’s situation without the market saturation.
jtb yl1
by Allen J. Kha on Jul 22, 2010 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Within a certain vincinity of what?
Because they certainly aren’t within the vincinty of each other, which is exactly the issue central to this discussion AAA and HiA affiliate to be within one hour drive time of each other).
So I still fail to see why you would reference them. Please clarify.
It seems that the Moorad Group could care less if the Single A affiliate is hurt, so the study likely wouldn’t do anything to stop the move to Escondido, but it would allow them to see if their revenue would truly be hurt so much that they would need to move to another city.
How much longer are we tied to the Storm? Obviously I wouldn’t want the Storm to switch team affiliations (I love ’em to death) and the relationship between them and the Padres is quite solid, but worst comes worst we could switch with another team like we did with the Angels.
jtb yl1
by Allen J. Kha on Jul 22, 2010 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm not sure how affiliation contracts shake out, or how much longer the Padres are tied to the Storm.
The way the Storm reacted to the San Marcos rumors they might be the ones to try and initiate an affiliate swap. But then if the Escondido AAA team does hurt the Storm’s market and they have to move then an affiliate swap becomes more difficult because the Storm would be a team in flux and that could cause headaches for a Major League club.
Not saying a swap wouldn’t eventually happen. Just that there might be a couple of years of acrimony before it all settled.
I’m sure the Moorad Group would like to see the two teams succeed in relative proximity to each other, but with them being the owners of the AAA squad their interests will lie solely with the team in Escondido.
Escondido is a good 40-some miles away from Lake Elsinore. Lake Elsinore distance-wise is equidistant
between Anaheim and Escondido, and Rancho Coucamonga is the same distance from Anaheim as Escondido is Lake Elsinore. I don’t see big problems— I bet the bigger concern is just the forced ballpark share having long-lasting effects. My opinion though, fwiw
jtb yl1
by Allen J. Kha on Jul 22, 2010 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions
The porblem is that TheStorm already compete in a very crowded Southern California baseball market
with 2 major league teams; SD & ANA, and 2 other California League Teams; San Bernandino 66ers (LAD), Rancho Cucamonga Quakes (ANA).
Two of those teams offer a better product, and two are affiliates of major league teams that actually have television market shares in San Bernandino and Riverside counties.
It would seem the Storm just might benefit from being close enough to the northern reaches of their parent club’s television market that they can siphon off some of those fans to make up for the tough competition from the other teams in their area.
Now place a similarly marketable AAA team between the Storm and those northern fans, and the picture gets a whole lot murkier.
It’s very likely that the majority of the Storm’s fans come from the Lake Elsinore-Murrieta-Perris-Hemet area. But I don’t think we can accurately say whether or not the North County fans make a substantial difference in the revenue stream of the Lake Elsinore Storm.
The Storm seem to think so.
And I would personally like to see quantitative evidence one way or the other.
He mentioned Anaheim.
And I didn’t do any research into how conveniently located Chavez Latrine is for residents of San Bernandino and Riverside counties.
Should they be included?
I’d just as soon exclude them.
I just mentioned Anaheim b/c of the Rancho Coucamonga reference.
But I definitely take your points. I just have a hart time really conceptualizing Lake Elsinore as a draw when I have that “it” feeling that Escondido affiliates itself more with San Diego.
As for San Bernadino, I’m not sure if that’s quite a fair comparison because like you said, that market trumps anything Lake Elsinore can offer.
jtb yl1
by Allen J. Kha on Jul 22, 2010 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions
And I'm saying that I would rather see a well thought out study on the matter,
instead of trusting a gut or “it” feeling. That way I could make an informed opinion on the matter.
And I’m wasn’t citing the San Bernandino teams as comparable to the Storm, but as an example of why the Storm would need to look southwards (i.e. North County communities) for additional fans/revenue.
I've lived in North County my whole life
and the only people I knew from SD going to Storm games had a son on the team.
Oh internet, what a wicked web you weave.
I assume that 99% of the people at Storm games are from Riverside County or Fallbrook.
I live in North County and I don’t think I even know anyone who has been to a Storm game. I do know a lot of people who would make the drive to Escondido to see the AAA. We need something up here to fill the space in our hearts left by the departure of the Encinitas Padres Store.
yes but will those Fallbrook people now go to Escondido?
And yes, the Padres ownership wants it’s A affiliate to do well.
"I post like canned meat."
I think it's a good idea to put the AAA club as close to SD as possible
and they should build the stadium to mirror Petco. This would help develop hitters who can succeed in a run-depressing environment. The Rockies do something similar—they have their AAA club in Colorado Springs where they can develop and train pitchers to cope with the crazy environment in Denver.
"This is no ordinary honey!"
Bolts From The Blue - Heavy with the facts, slightly less heavy with the opinions.
by Zach (maestro876) on Jul 23, 2010 3:49 PM PDT reply actions
where they train and develop their players
to be evil bastards
by kevintheoman on Jul 24, 2010 8:45 PM PDT up reply actions
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