Padres lose to Mets in extras. I kinda thought we were gonna win
by Dex on Jun 8, 2010 8:50 PM PDT
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Actually, now that I think about it, I must've lost faith in Edward Mujica. Getting through one inning without giving up a run was one thing, but the Padres couldn't finish the deal and score some runs and Mujica was sent out there again. He had nice stuff, but then it looked like he was missing spots and pretty soon it was all over.
Let's try it again tomorrow. Darn those Mets to heck.
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Its true... as pissed as I am at Mujica...
I am also pissed at the collective suck of the offense on the evening.
"This team looks dangerous, like a convict with a temper, nothing to lose and a switch blade." -jbox
at that point I'm almost convinced
Bud just wanted the game over with, because nobody was stepping up to the plate
9 out of 10 pitches Mujica throws are awesome
But that last 1, it’s a doooooozy.
Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? ◔ヮ◔
Uncommon Sportsman :: Absurdity in play
not even kidding
But when I heard Dick Enberg say that Edward Mujica had joined Heathe Bell in warming up in the bullpen, I got pissed off. I know it doesn’t happen every time he goes out there, but it seems like he’s giving up a long ball every time I see him. Maybe they should only let him pitch at Petco.
"Well, he ought to go home and find somebody else to bang." Jerry Coleman
He gives it up there too.
"This team looks dangerous, like a convict with a temper, nothing to lose and a switch blade." -jbox
1.5 hr/9 at home
4.1 away
"Get your hopes up. That's what hopes are for by the way, to get up. You don't get your hopes down, you get your hopes up." -Jeffrey Tambor
Yeah thats not a major leaguer.
"This team looks dangerous, like a convict with a temper, nothing to lose and a switch blade." -jbox
That makes me
want to cry.
"You're like the nicest internet person I know." - theodore donald kerabatsos
You cannot win every game 1-0.
They need a core group of genuine major league hitters. Until that happens, there will be no championship run.
Padres have a 1.5 game lead on the wild card
Still a playoff team
"Get your hopes up. That's what hopes are for by the way, to get up. You don't get your hopes down, you get your hopes up." -Jeffrey Tambor
I don't get the anger at Mujica
Were are relievers realistically going to put up zeros for umpteen innings until we finally scored? It’s just not realistic. If it wasn’t Mujica it would have been somebody else.
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
by Wonko on Jun 8, 2010 10:29 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
*Were our relievers
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
It wouldn't have been any part of the trifecta
But I am in agreement with Wonko.
"Savvy Chicks Dig the Bullpen"
The anger is because Mujica has a home run problem.
"It is a truth universally acknowledged that a zombie in possession of brains must be in want of more brains."
Bolts From The Blue - Heavy with the facts, slightly less heavy with the opinions.
by Zach (maestro876) on Jun 8, 2010 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions
But everything else about him is great
He doesn’t give up a lot of hits or walks or runs and he gets a lot of strikeouts. He’s a solid middle reliever. I don’t even really have that big of a problem using him when he can give up a walkoff. 2.5 HR/9 means that if you leave him out there for 4 innings he’ll probably give up a bomb. Why is that any worse (and judging by the venom here, the perception is that it is worse) than sending out a pitcher with a 4.50 ERA who will likely will let the other team walkoff if he pitches 2 innings?
Now, obviously, nobody in the bullpen has this mythical 4.50 ERA, so there were other options at Bud’s disposal. But, why does that make us madder at Mujica than we have been at any numerous others that lost a game?
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
Home runs are soul-crushing in a way that singles aren't.
That’s why people get madder at Mujica—they know that the shoe will drop at any moment, and it will be particularly devastating when it does.
"It is a truth universally acknowledged that a zombie in possession of brains must be in want of more brains."
Bolts From The Blue - Heavy with the facts, slightly less heavy with the opinions.
by Zach (maestro876) on Jun 9, 2010 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
At least, that's why I'm mad at Mujica.
"It is a truth universally acknowledged that a zombie in possession of brains must be in want of more brains."
Bolts From The Blue - Heavy with the facts, slightly less heavy with the opinions.
by Zach (maestro876) on Jun 9, 2010 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Wow... I am surprised as you Wonko
Almost every stat-maniac knows that there is almost a direct correlation between HR rate and bullpen success… better than nearly any other state. HR’s lose games… period.
"This team looks dangerous, like a convict with a temper, nothing to lose and a switch blade." -jbox
I don't this metric "bullpen success"
It’s hard to have a correlation between a number and a concept.
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
also
I’m not talking about how good Mujica is. I’m really talking about how ridiculously mad people are at him.
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
He does not have a Major League profile
His HR rate overshadows everything else he does.
"This team looks dangerous, like a convict with a temper, nothing to lose and a switch blade." -jbox
I don't see how that could be true.
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
Dammit I am looking for the stat I had found once
But overall success in the majors is directly correlated with HR rate… just look anecdotally on stat sites… though I am having a hard time finding the worst hr/9 in the league… I know from eyeballing that Mujica is in a small, shitty company.
"This team looks dangerous, like a convict with a temper, nothing to lose and a switch blade." -jbox
Losses.
"This team looks dangerous, like a convict with a temper, nothing to lose and a switch blade." -jbox
Nice analysis.
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
I played Hardball Dynasty on whatifsports.com for awhile
Takes too much of my time right now, but team ERA and HR/9 were correlated… while ERA is a junk stat and I don’t know much about some of the others I can tell you that high hr/9 is pretty much the worst stat you can have. And Mujica is probably in the top 10, if not 5… he has 8 in like 25 innings. That is not Big League stuff… I think Gaudin and Morton may be the only 2 guys with worst numbers.
"This team looks dangerous, like a convict with a temper, nothing to lose and a switch blade." -jbox
He's pitched more than 25 innings in the big leagues I'm pretty sure.
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
Thats this year...
He was 14 in 67 last year… still pretty bad.
"This team looks dangerous, like a convict with a temper, nothing to lose and a switch blade." -jbox
Like I said, there are other metrics that can show that
Even if you are good at everything else… like Mujica is… HR/9 is the one stat that you cannot gloss over. If you cannot keep it at an reasonable level… you do not belong in the bigs. Wonko is saying that he has redeeming qualities, I am saying that regardless of his other redeeming qualities HR/9 is insurmountable.
"This team looks dangerous, like a convict with a temper, nothing to lose and a switch blade." -jbox
I just think the argument is funny....
On base percentage is directly correlated with how much you get on base.
=SD=
Wonko is saying that you can be an effective Major League pitcher
and give up tons of home runs, is that not more silly? You are pointing out the obviousness of an argument I had to make to Wonko because he is saying its irrational to be angry at a pitcher who is amongst the league’s worst in giving up home runs… isn’t that more ridiculous?
"This team looks dangerous, like a convict with a temper, nothing to lose and a switch blade." -jbox
If
Practically the only hits you give up are home runs, you are extremely stingy with walks and you strike out a bunch of hitters so that you don’t have to worry about errors then it seems to me that you can do pretty well for yourself. And, hey, look at that, Mujica is doing that and his ERA ain’t too shabby.
On top of that, his HR rate is higher right now than it’s ever been, which makes it seem somewhat likely to come back down.
I just don’t see why it’s more inflammatory to be a pitcher who gets decent results and gives up HRs than a pitcher who doesn’t get as good of results and doesn’t give up as many HRs.
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
If he keeps giving up HR's
at this rate, or even a bit lower, it severely limits the situations you can use him in:
1) Don’t put him in extra inning games.
2) Don’t put him in with men on base.
3) Don’t put him in during 1 run games.
4) Don’t keep him in for more than one inning.
The rest of our bullpen is good enough to possibly allow this turd on our team, but our team would be better with a reliever who is more consistent. It IS more buddy’s fault than his… but his long ball numbers hardly work with our team concept.
"This team looks dangerous, like a convict with a temper, nothing to lose and a switch blade." -jbox
All I'm saying
Is that is all true because he is giving up runs, not because he is giving up HRs. The HRs are just drawing extra anger from somewhere. Who cares how the guy gives up the runs?
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
Overall I don't care
But if a guy is giving up runs because his oav is .350 and he is walking 4.5 per 9… its obvious is he not Major League material, but Mujica isn’t either, but people like you question that because its HR/9 instead of BB/9 or .oav… or some other indicative stat.
"This team looks dangerous, like a convict with a temper, nothing to lose and a switch blade." -jbox
That doesn't sound right.
How much HRs hurt you is highly dependent on everything else you do. Giving up BBs or Hs means that you are actually having trouble getting people out. Mujica doesn’t seem to have a problem getting people out.
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
He is giving up HR's at such a rate that
BB’s and H’s don’t even matter… 4.1 HR/9 on the road is ludicrous and I think 1.5 is insane at Petco. Plus it means you cannot risk him pitching with runners on.
Plus you are proving my point. I am saying that HR/9 is just as damning a stats as those other stats are… only its harder for some people to see. If you are letting inherited runners score, and giving up a HR every other inning on the road… its not good… just like giving up hits and walks is not good.
"This team looks dangerous, like a convict with a temper, nothing to lose and a switch blade." -jbox
You're too obsessed with that 4.1 number
It seems so sample-sized and fluky to be anything real to whine about.
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
Flukey?
He is getting hit hard when they connect. I think its artificially low because of Petco, and he doesn’t need to be in the Majors because of it.
"This team looks dangerous, like a convict with a temper, nothing to lose and a switch blade." -jbox
It's easy to point the finger
at the guy who threw the pitch that lost the game.
Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? ◔ヮ◔
Uncommon Sportsman :: Absurdity in play
Yes Mujica IS a problem... is HR rate is stupid.
"This team looks dangerous, like a convict with a temper, nothing to lose and a switch blade." -jbox
4.1 HR away and 1.5 IN PETCO is retarded... DFA his ass.
"This team looks dangerous, like a convict with a temper, nothing to lose and a switch blade." -jbox
They could bring up Russell
Although it seems every time they do that,
poor YoYo Man gets sent down again.
"Savvy Chicks Dig the Bullpen"
what about Greg Burke
"Get your hopes up. That's what hopes are for by the way, to get up. You don't get your hopes down, you get your hopes up." -Jeffrey Tambor
0.8 hr/9 in the majors last year.
"Get your hopes up. That's what hopes are for by the way, to get up. You don't get your hopes down, you get your hopes up." -Jeffrey Tambor
We can wait for Stauffer and make Mujica mop-up man until then.
"This team looks dangerous, like a convict with a temper, nothing to lose and a switch blade." -jbox
I blame the 2008 Padres
If we would have lost 5 more games in 2008 Stephen Strasburg would have been pitching for us and he would have pitched a no hitter tonight…DUH.
Mat Latos is the real deal...Go Lakers, Pads, and Bolts
by mrbarneydangles on Jun 8, 2010 10:48 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
that is correct
the planets are out of alignment because of this
that is why we lost
that is why the Doyeurs won
"Savvy Chicks Dig the Bullpen"
I bet the me in the universe
where we got Strasburg had a great day.
Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? ◔ヮ◔
Uncommon Sportsman :: Absurdity in play
It's actually worse than just having "lost 5 more games"
They only had to lose 3 more games. All of them to the Nationals late in the season, since that would have given the Nats 3 more wins. But, they went on and swept ’em. Much to our dismay.
No, I don't think you're an idiot. Please don't go trying to prove me wrong about that.
Bolts from the Blue - General Manager: It is what it isn't
When Mujica was warming up I told my wife she could put on Judge Judy
Cause we were about to lose on a walk off. She thinks I’m Nostradamus.
=SD=
Same thing I told my friends.
I told them I guarantee he gives up a walk-off HR. I R SMRT.
Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
Bolts From The Blue "There’s a gleam men. Let’s go get the gleam! Focus and Finish!!! One play at a time!!! Let's Go!!!"
it kind of reminds me of that movie "You've got mail"...I'm Tom Hanks he's Meg Ryan -- Padres prospect Matt Antonelli on sdsuaztec4
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Jun 9, 2010 7:55 AM PDT up reply actions
I thought the same thing
Gaslamp Ball Game OT: "Makes you happy in the pants"
MLB Network: "Keep believing!"
Heat: "Uhh, no. We know."
I blame this loss on my kids
Usually, I listen to every game, but my kids keep me busy enough, or are using all of the computers, so I don’t get to post in the OT very often. The padres have done well in these situations. Last night the kids were relatively quiet, and I had access to a computer, so I posted some, and it cost us the game. I promise to get them all sugared up before tonight’s game.
Ohhh! How come nothing is ever boobs or ice cream? - Homer Simpson
Is no one even going to mention Bud's role in this?
I like Buddy. I think he’s a very good manager. But why… WHY would you send Mujica in in the 10th when you could have sent Gregerson out there for another inning, or Webb, or Bell or ANYONE else in your bullpen who doesn’t have a HR surrendering problem??
Then Mujica gives up a shot to right that misses being a homerun by 18 inches. Crisis narrowly averted, now let’s consider our luck pushed and get a new pitcher in there. Bud still lets him get the third out in the 10th, which, thankfully, he got.
But to send Mujica out again in the 11th is absolutely a terrible decision. How does that make any sense? Two of the three guys scheduled to bat in the 11th were lefties, so the lefty-righty matchup thing actually works against him. WHY SEND HIM BACK OUT THERE BUD You have the best bullpen in baseball! Use it!
by theodore donald kerabatsos on Jun 9, 2010 7:42 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
this
Ohhh! How come nothing is ever boobs or ice cream? - Homer Simpson
by Boilermaker19 on Jun 9, 2010 8:14 AM PDT up reply actions
It makes sense
If you have no confidence in your team’s ability to score. Once you get to extra innings you need to strech everyone, so you don’t run out of pitchers.
That doesn't mean you just concede the game.
Aside from already having a shakey track record, Mujica was clearly struggling in the 10th and nearly blew the game on Pagan’s shot. Everyone knew that it was a bad idea to send him back out for the 11th. Go back at read the OT and look at the comments in this thread… it was obvious to most observers that it was a bad idea to send Mujica in there in 10th and an even worse idea to send him back out for the 11th.
Also, if you need to stretch your pitchers, why didn’t Luke pitch the 10th? He looked absolutely unhittable in the 9th and only threw 11 pitches. There’s NO reason he couldn’t have gone out for another inning.
by theodore donald kerabatsos on Jun 9, 2010 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions
totally agree
I was only keeping up via espn… but I was surprised we burned through Adams/Gregerson so quickly.
But once Mujica was brought in… I decided to stop looking for updates every 5 minutes. He is an okay pitcher if we are up by a few runs and it is like the 6th/7th…
but I would never bring him in if a HR would change the game. He has a great whip… but his HR numbers are horrendous.
Right now, I think our bullpen pitchers are (in terms of quality):
Gregerson
Adams
Stauffer (once healthy)
Bell
Webb/Thatcher
and then….
Mujica
Gallagher
Salazar pinch hit for Luke in the bottom of the 9th
"Get your hopes up. That's what hopes are for by the way, to get up. You don't get your hopes down, you get your hopes up." -Jeffrey Tambor
This times a billion.
Bud is such an idiot sometimes. It’s one thing to send Mujica out there if we’re losing and we just need someone to finish out the game. It another to bring him out when we’re tied at one. And a WHOLE other thing to bring him out for 2 innings, in extra innings. I would understand if this had been like, the fourth game in a row we had gotten to 12 innings or something, but it wasn’t.
But why would you send him out there when you have Heath warming up in the pen? Maybe to face one batter, yeah, but not for two innings.
"You're like the nicest internet person I know." - theodore donald kerabatsos
Total agreement on this
My only complaint with Buddy (and I’ve had it since he took over) is that he tends to go back to the well a little too often with the pitchers, as if he can will them into doing more than what they are capable of in reality. I think it comes from him being a pitcher and not wanting to come out of games, even when it is clearly time.
Or it could just be my irrational, all-consuming disgust with Mujica…either way…
Should have been Heath... the inning would have went:
Walk, K, Single, Pop out to First, ground out to SS.
"This team looks dangerous, like a convict with a temper, nothing to lose and a switch blade." -jbox
We, most likely would have followed with:
Fly out to warning track, K, K.
"This team looks dangerous, like a convict with a temper, nothing to lose and a switch blade." -jbox
Anyone else?
"This team looks dangerous, like a convict with a temper, nothing to lose and a switch blade." -jbox
The thing is when you are on the road
Your closer normally doesn’t come into the game unless you are up because he can get a save. I totally agree that Mujica shouldn’t have been out there but it shouldn’t be Heath either he ends up being a last resort in these kinda games. I wish it was Webb or the gallagher we saw against the Phillies
The one and only AzDuck
Hey, off topic
but did you hear about Masoli?
"You're like the nicest internet person I know." - theodore donald kerabatsos
you know i saw something about that
That sucks im hoping the 2nd stringer behind costa is good because we only have nate for one year
The one and only AzDuck
Hopefully we get
some good recruits too.
"You're like the nicest internet person I know." - theodore donald kerabatsos
Game is rained out tonight.
We play a double header tomorrow.
That’s just one more day we have to wait to get back in first place. Grrrr.
I need new pants.
I haz a sadness.
I’m getting super sick of the smell of the Dodgers in first place. It’s making me sick.
"You're like the nicest internet person I know." - theodore donald kerabatsos
I wouldn't be able to ot anyway
but it still makes me sadddddddddddd
"You're like the nicest internet person I know." - theodore donald kerabatsos
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