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Hatred for the Adrian Gonzalez trade

It's been painfully obvious for months, maybe years, that Gonzalez was never going to sign a contract extension with the Padres.  It was inevitable that he would become a free agent, become extremely rich and play for one of ESPN's favorite teams. It was never in doubt.

I tried to like the deal, I tried to drink the Kool-Aid, but now Aid belongs to the Red Sox.  I see why some might think it's better to trade him now and get a three prospects and a PTBNL, instead of letting him become a free agent at the end of the 2011 season and only getting two bonus picks in the draft. I tried to convince myself that this was better for the future of the franchise.  It didn't work.

Here's why I hate trading Adrian Gonzalez:

  • I hate that the Padres have weakened the team for the 2011 season. Anyway you look at it this team just got worse for next year.
  • Players like Gonzalez don't come around often, he's not an aging star on the decline like the others.  He's still in his prime and 2011 will be one less year that we get to watch him play for our team.  It's not often you can get an MVP caliber baseball player for only $6 million, especially in San Diego..
  • I hate that this trade helped the Boston Red Sox a team that inspires an irrational hatred in me.  Now their chances of winning next year's World Series have greatly increased.  Giving up prospects to them is nothing, they just buy proven talent when they need it.  At least if the Padres kept him it might keep the trophy out of their hands for another year.
  • I hate that this trade didn't address any of the Padres current needs.  That's really hard to do too, because they have a lot of needs.  In fact it just created another need.  The Padres have one Major League infielder right now and that's debatable.
  • I hate that the Padres didn't get one Major League ready player.  Instead they received 3 or 4  prospects.  There's no guarantee that these 4 will ever amount to anything, play at the Major League level or wear a Padres uniform.  Gonzalez putting together another All Star caliber, dare I say MVP caliber season is the closest thing to a guarantee as there is in baseball.  He's as consistent as they get.  I can't help but think that Gonzalez in one last year would have a bigger impact on the franchise than any of these prospects ever will.
  • I hate that it'll take forever to find out if the Padres received valuable talent from this trade.  I'm very impatient.  Adrian Gonzalez will probably hit 50 home runs next year.  The prospects the Padres get in return are so young.  The only thing they'll be hitting in 2011 is puberty.  It won't be until 2014 or 2015 that they might start paying back dividends in the Major Leagues.  By that time I'll have completely lost interest in baseball when I get my first hoverboard.

Comment 109 comments  |  3 recs  | 

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Haters gonna hate

We need the prospects, not Fadrian

"I eat stickers all the time dude!" ~ Charlie Day

by All Things SD on Dec 5, 2010 11:37 PM PST reply actions  

I was actually okay with the deal for a bit.

But that’s because I pretended it didn’t happen. Reading this made my heart sink. I miss Adrian.

We didn’t even get Padroya

I BELIEVE[d].

by LetBurroughsPitch on Dec 5, 2010 11:37 PM PST reply actions  

"The only thing they'll be hitting in 2011 is puberty."

Good show. Nicely played.

Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser. -- Vince Lombardi

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Dec 5, 2010 11:39 PM PST reply actions  

Kelly and Rizzo

will likely start off in AAA and be up by the end of the year or beginning of 2012 if they have decent years. Fuentes is more like 2014-15.

Either way, this feeling sucks, and if either (God forbid both) of those top 2 turn out to be a bust, I will be right there in this boat with you.

"I don't think about the things I say. You guys are the ones who think about it."

by surferfromSD619 on Dec 5, 2010 11:57 PM PST reply actions  

Kelly should probably start in AA

He didn’t do so hot there this year, and he’s only just 21

If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
My cookies are legendary, and for good reason.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 6, 2010 12:20 PM PST up reply actions  

I hate haters

I think you know the answers to the reasons by which you justify your hate. You can read them in the articles about this trade on Fangraphs or by those who know the modern game like Peter Gammons. Why do you abandon such knowledge so you can sound like any of the fools who write the Union-Tribune saying the Padres should have gotten equal value for Adrian for 2011 or even more, cost being no issue to such fools? If the Padres had $20 million a year to pay veterans equivalent to Adrian, this story would be very different.

No, the Padres aren’t the Yankees, who couldn’t pay Jeter the moon to finish his career in New York, but almost that much. They’re not even the Rockies. What kind of fan hasn’t forgiven the Padres for that long ago? The kind who said, “Good riddance,” when they almost moved to Washington in 1974, I guess. Letter writers to the U-T will be trying to top each other in their hatred for Padre management forever, long after they’ve forgotten Adrian. Do you want to live in their hell?

by playingwithinmyself on Dec 6, 2010 12:29 AM PST reply actions  

If things go as planned...

You could have a starting lineup that looks like this in a few year

SP#1 Matt Latos

SP#2 Casey Kelly

SP#3 Tim Stauffer

SP#4 Clayton Richard

SP#5 Cory Luebke/Simon Castro

Catcher – Nick Hundley

First Base – Blanks/RIzzo

Second Base – ????

Shortstop – Cabrea (I can see him overcoming the sophmore slump)

Third Base – Headley

Right Field – Venable

Center Field – Maybin

Left Field – Cunningham

Not a bad lineup except for 2nd base. Pitching rotation could be in awesome shape by the 2012 Season.

by Icecoldstone on Dec 6, 2010 12:40 AM PST reply actions  

I like that ???? guy at 2nd, he beats the crap out of PTBNL dude.

Gaslamp Ball Game OT: "Makes you happy in the pants"

"Even Jedis don't stand a chance against our bullpen."

by tonoxtono on Dec 6, 2010 12:51 AM PST up reply actions  

Cabrea will not be a Padre in a few years.

My guess is he doesn’t even finish 2011 with them.

by strummer on Dec 6, 2010 2:43 AM PST up reply actions  

Cabrea won't even start in 2011

"Well, it's just ineffable." "Oh, so I'm not 'F-able'?" "No, no, ineffable means it can't be explained." "So I'm stupid?"

by Friar Fever on Dec 6, 2010 7:27 AM PST up reply actions  

That's because

he’s not as good as Cabrera.

by scout1222 on Dec 6, 2010 7:58 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Nor will he ever be

"Well, it's just ineffable." "Oh, so I'm not 'F-able'?" "No, no, ineffable means it can't be explained." "So I'm stupid?"

by Friar Fever on Dec 6, 2010 9:13 AM PST up reply actions  

I wouldn't go that far

I’ve heard some good things about Cabrea…
There’s definitely a buzz out there

by Zen Blade on Dec 6, 2010 11:41 AM PST up reply actions  

I would go that far

Cabrera could out hit, field, run, and kick better than Cabrea anyday. Trust me, I’ve seen him do it.

"Well, it's just ineffable." "Oh, so I'm not 'F-able'?" "No, no, ineffable means it can't be explained." "So I'm stupid?"

by Friar Fever on Dec 6, 2010 11:53 AM PST up reply actions  

Oh really?

Ya, but Cabrea has far more upside – Cabrera has shown that all he has is speed and fielding.

by Time4fun on Dec 6, 2010 5:50 PM PST up reply actions  

What has Cabrea done?

I mean seriously. He might have upside but he hasn’t established himself as a player that is going to be something soon. We need a SS now and Cabrea isn’t that guy.

"Well, it's just ineffable." "Oh, so I'm not 'F-able'?" "No, no, ineffable means it can't be explained." "So I'm stupid?"

by Friar Fever on Dec 6, 2010 7:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh, Cabrera has upside too.

Trust me. I know.

I need new pants.

by jodes0405 on Dec 7, 2010 1:11 AM PST up reply actions  

When you say "in a few years" do you mean 2011-2012, or 2013-2014?

Because in the short term, Casey Kelly and Simon Castro are not ready. In the longs term, both Kelly and Castro project as front of the rotation guys, far better than Stauffer, Richard, and Luebke. Also, Cunningham is a decent player but is not an ideal left fielder. He doesn’t produce enough offense to justify that.

My name is Guybrush Threepwood, and I'm a mighty pirate.
"How appropriate! You fight like a cow!"
Faceless slider-tossing goofs FTW.

by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 6, 2010 11:35 AM PST up reply actions  

2013 is the year I projet as being THE YEAR

if we are going to have a big year, maybe 2014… but I think 2012 will show promise and 2013 we will be a serious contender with stud SP.

by Zen Blade on Dec 6, 2010 11:43 AM PST up reply actions  

I like

Darnell as our future LF of 2012. He sucks at third and has a good right handed power stroke. Hopefully they try him in the OF next year in AAA.

by Antonio Olivares on Dec 6, 2010 12:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Darnell is a good prospect

but he has a lot of learning to do. I wouldn’t pencil him in for anything.

My name is Guybrush Threepwood, and I'm a mighty pirate.
"How appropriate! You fight like a cow!"
Faceless slider-tossing goofs FTW.

by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 6, 2010 1:09 PM PST up reply actions  

I strongly agree

I guess this team don’t care the fans who spend money for them.
If they don’t care us, we also don’t need to waste money to see losing games.

by Spookies on Dec 6, 2010 2:18 AM PST reply actions  

It’s the economy, stupid! (Hurrah for 80s slogans!)
But seriously … there wasn’t a chance he was going to re-sign as a free agent. Is this the best package of players available? Probably, otherwise I don’t think Jed makes this deal. Will 2011 suck? Probably, but didn’t most of us think 2010 was going to be bad as well?
We’ll be fine in 2011 2012 2013 2014.

by Lancers46 on Dec 6, 2010 2:33 AM PST reply actions  

80s slogans?

Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser. -- Vince Lombardi

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Dec 6, 2010 4:19 AM PST up reply actions  

He meant 1992's slogan

(Bill Clinton: “It’s the economy stupid”)

by 'Eaters on Dec 6, 2010 11:00 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Yes

Except James Carville was the one who came up with it

Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser. -- Vince Lombardi

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Dec 6, 2010 5:54 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Hahaha, hoverboard

in 2015. Beautiful “Back to the Future” reference.

by Rally Cap on Dec 6, 2010 2:42 AM PST reply actions  

Agreed.

“Trade makes sense, blah blah blah, got most value for him, blah blah blah, never going to re-sign anyway, blah blah blah….. Baseball doesn’t make sense sometimes. Look at the Werth deal; WTF is Washington thinking? Apparently, they’ve got some government types in their accounting office over there. It’ll be fun to watch him suck in a couple of years while hauling down the big bucks, or leaving when his pedophile past catches up to him.
You know what I like with my baseball? Hope. it’s my favorite baseball flavor. You know what my least favorite baseball flavor is? Wait with a hint of “Red Sox win”. It tastes like ass.

What I need is an electric monk

by Boilermaker19 on Dec 6, 2010 5:24 AM PST reply actions  

Pittsburgh Pirates of the West

It’s a neverending cycle that leads no where but the bottom.

by SanDiegoKev on Dec 6, 2010 7:30 AM PST reply actions  

Get back to me in 14 years.

Then we’ll be the Pirates.

My name is Guybrush Threepwood, and I'm a mighty pirate.
"How appropriate! You fight like a cow!"
Faceless slider-tossing goofs FTW.

by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 6, 2010 11:36 AM PST up reply actions  

Did Pittsburgh win 90 games this season?

Bolts from the Blue // "It is what it is." - A.J. Smith
Bloody Elbow // "Richard is a jewel." - Kid Nate

by Richard Wade on Dec 6, 2010 3:56 PM PST up reply actions  

At least the Pirates

have a history of championships. Those can never be taken away

by strummer on Dec 7, 2010 2:26 AM PST up reply actions  

how little you know...

if you suck bad enough, for long enough… they get auctioned off to the better teams. How else do you think the Yankees acquired all those world championships?

by Zen Blade on Dec 7, 2010 4:33 AM PST up reply actions  

So the Pirates

won the 1927 World Series?

"Get your hopes up. That's what hopes are for by the way, to get up. You don't get your hopes down, you get your hopes up." -Jeffrey Tambor

by Ketchup on Dec 7, 2010 7:59 AM PST up reply actions  

There is still hope for 2011

"Get your hopes up. That's what hopes are for by the way, to get up. You don't get your hopes down, you get your hopes up." -Jeffrey Tambor

by Ketchup on Dec 6, 2010 7:53 AM PST reply actions  

Houston's making Jeff Keppinger available

according to MLBTR.com. I would prefer him over Bartlett (cheaper, longer control, position flexibility). You could pay his salary for two seasons for what one season of Orlando Hudson would cost. Re-sign J-Hair, then you have Everth as the back-up at both spots. I wonder what it would take to pry him loose?

TBD

by IputtheYinTony on Dec 6, 2010 8:41 AM PST reply actions  

I was just about to Fan Shot this

He would be a good pickup for a top of the order guy. He was a reliable player for the Astros (I only know this because I had him on a fantasy team for awhile) and as you noted, a guy who could play SS and 2B. Since they’re cutting payroll, it wouldn’t take much to get him. I bet an autographed Bob Scanlan poster could get us Keppinger. And if they drive a hard bargain, we’ll throw in an Andujar Cedeno rookie card. No way they turn that down.

"Well, it's just ineffable." "Oh, so I'm not 'F-able'?" "No, no, ineffable means it can't be explained." "So I'm stupid?"

by Friar Fever on Dec 6, 2010 9:08 AM PST up reply actions  

Not at SS

He’s a really bad SS. He’d be okay at 2B though. Dude doesn’t strike out much.

by Antonio Olivares on Dec 6, 2010 12:31 PM PST up reply actions  

As a long time fan

I’d trade a good Adrian deal for a real pennant surge in ‘11 any day. But that’s not going to happen now. As Canepa said, “The Padres have no lineup.”

Why? Because now we’ll wait a minimum of four years for another one, and then if any of those players are decent, they’ll be traded for yet more prospects. Back to rooting for a AA team.

by EvilSammy on Dec 6, 2010 8:42 AM PST reply actions  

The way for the Padres to be consistently competitive

is to develop a top notch farm system that consistently produces cheap talent for the major league club. The model is Tampa Bay. Thanks to years of horrible drafting, our system is only now recovering and climbing up from the bottom of the rankings. It is going to take a couple more years to get to that point. Even then we won’t be able to retain every star that we bring up. Tampa couldn’t come close to affording Carl Crawford. But they don’t look to be any worse for losing him next year because they have other good young players to replace him with. That’s where we need to be.

My name is Guybrush Threepwood, and I'm a mighty pirate.
"How appropriate! You fight like a cow!"
Faceless slider-tossing goofs FTW.

by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 6, 2010 11:43 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Injury

I am rationalizing this by assuming Adrian’s shoulder injury would have ruined his 2011. He really won’t be able to get into serious baseball training until Late March and probably won’t be Adrian until the all-star break. There is a decent chance he will injure something else compensating for the weak shoulder, and his 2011 would have been shot. And then he would have been gone.

This way we get something for him! And Adrian gets a boatload of money, which couldn’t happen to a better person. If he had stuck around for another year, its possible both of those things would have been at risk.

by Stephen (shaynes41) on Dec 6, 2010 8:48 AM PST reply actions  

For a labrum clean up?

I was under the impression this was not a serious injury.

by EvilSammy on Dec 6, 2010 9:02 AM PST up reply actions  

I’ve seen reports that he “Hopes to be ready for Spring Training”, and extrapolated based on wild assumptions from there.

by Stephen (shaynes41) on Dec 6, 2010 11:56 AM PST up reply actions  

2011

The one thing that pisses me off more than anything is that the Padres said this morning that they haven’t given up on 2011. If you are building for the future, going after prospects the average fan doesn’t know about, that’s fine. In this market, one can argue that’s your job. But don’t come out and tell me with a straight face you are still doing what you can for this next season. Just come out and admit that you are shooting for 50 wins.

"I'M NOT GOING TO ASK HIM FOR F_CKING TICKETS, DEX. I DON'T NEED A DEAL ON A F_CKING LUXURY SUITE." - Mike

by Jonny Dub on Dec 6, 2010 9:16 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

I don't see how there's no hope for 2011

We don’t even have players to fill spots right now. I figure those spots will have to be filled with somebody. What’s our payroll now? $3 million? They’ll have to spend the money somewhere.

by Dex on Dec 6, 2010 9:18 AM PST reply actions  

I don't see anything wrong with fielding

a $3million payroll.

Oh internet, what a wicked web you weave.

by Mad_Villain on Dec 6, 2010 9:48 AM PST up reply actions  

I don't think that is technically legal.

League min is like $400,000.

20 players would be $8,000,000.
And a couple of our players make ~$1,000,000 each….

So, I think we could probably do about $12 million, maybe $13 million. But definitely under $20 million. NOW THAT, would be an interesting season. We would probably get more wins per our dollar than any other team. :) 60 wins….

by Zen Blade on Dec 6, 2010 11:46 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm looking for wins per dollar....

higher ticket prices would help. I want to sacrifice 2011 so that in 2012 we’re the Yankees.

Oh internet, what a wicked web you weave.

by Mad_Villain on Dec 6, 2010 11:59 AM PST up reply actions  

Padres have only 6 guys making more than the min.

Ludwick, Bell, Adams, Norf, Maybin, Harang

Right now the payroll is about 20 mil (24 with salary arb?)…until they trade Bell.

I drink therefore I am.
W. C. Fields

by Hormel on Dec 6, 2010 2:13 PM PST up reply actions  

This.

I have faith in Jed. He’ll find someone. 2011 is gonna be better than 2010
/way too optimistic probably

"You're like the nicest internet person I know." - theodore donald kerabatsos

by Jordan_Ming on Dec 6, 2010 10:34 AM PST up reply actions  

careful

you might get committed…

by Zen Blade on Dec 6, 2010 11:47 AM PST up reply actions  

So where is your hatred directed? The Padres organization?

Or baseball in general, for perpetually keeping the Padres in this position that they can’t afford superstars?

"Don’t get nervous. Norv is in charge."

creanium.net
Bolts from the Blue

by creanium on Dec 6, 2010 9:26 AM PST reply actions  

Hatred is directed at myself mostly

I would rather the Padres keep Adrian this year or at least find a trade that would fill our current needs.

by jbox on Dec 6, 2010 9:42 AM PST up reply actions  

I have faith in Jedi

He will address the glaring needs of the team for 2011. Whether it’s flipping one of our new top prospects, or picking up a FA, or drafting a Rule 5 guy, I fully expect Jed to address our needs one way or another.

If he doesn’t though, then I lose all confidence and I will turn to rage.

"Don’t get nervous. Norv is in charge."

creanium.net
Bolts from the Blue

by creanium on Dec 6, 2010 10:06 AM PST up reply actions  

One point I'd like to make

is that unless you’re getting back MLB ready talent, which apparently wasn’t in the cards, you should treat trades for prospects like the draft, and not necessarily target certain positions but rather acquire the best possible players regardless of where they play.

My name is Guybrush Threepwood, and I'm a mighty pirate.
"How appropriate! You fight like a cow!"
Faceless slider-tossing goofs FTW.

by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 6, 2010 11:45 AM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Yup

queen of the rec fairies (http://spunc.com.au/members/hunter/product/9780980517965/)

by Aussie fan on Dec 6, 2010 12:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Not drinking the trade kool-aid

But gulping that 2010 kool-aid by the gallon! “90 win contenders, let’s keep Adrian and do it again!” That’s some damn good kool-aid!

by cofi on Dec 6, 2010 9:38 AM PST reply actions  

You think that's tasty

try the 2015 kool-aid, that’s sh_t’s delicious.

by jbox on Dec 6, 2010 9:40 AM PST up reply actions   3 recs

The Myth of a Small Market

San Diego is market size larger then St. Louis, and they are pretty similar in season ticket prices. There is no excuse for not spending more in payroll. I don’t care about ownership’s debt to buy the team. Evidently, MLB picked the wrong people to own the Padres, if this is the case.

by SanDiegoKev on Dec 6, 2010 9:49 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

Its revenue market

St. Louis is alot bigger than San Diego and its not even close, b/c they tell their advertisers they have a 15 Million viewer base. San Diego can only say they have a 1.5 million viewer base, and what makes it worse is that Honolulu is the only major city that watches less TV than San Diego.

The WSJ reported that San Diego Padres has the second lowest secondary revenue of any team besides the Rays, but what helps us out is that our attendance is usually upper middle.

"Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!"

by Ron Mexico on Dec 6, 2010 9:54 AM PST up reply actions  

These are the Stats

MLB rank U.S. rank Metropolitan area Team name Team home area Metro size

17 17 !17 San Diego metropolitan area Padres San Diego, California 3,053,793
18 !18 18 !18 Greater St. Louis Cardinals St. Louis, Missouri 2,828,990

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_teams_by_population

by SanDiegoKev on Dec 6, 2010 10:01 AM PST up reply actions  

It's the areas around the cities not just the cities themselves...

San Diego is surrounded by water, Mexico, mountains/desert and the second largest media market in the country.

St. Louis is sourunded by midwest towns full of baseball fans.

by Grey Suit on Dec 6, 2010 10:05 AM PST up reply actions  

you are an idiot

its TV Market/Radio Market.

St. Louis gos from Southern Ill. plus IND, MO etc.

San Diego, does not have the spread. PLUS Cox only serves less than 35% of the population

"Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!"

by Ron Mexico on Dec 6, 2010 10:06 AM PST up reply actions  

Time Warner also gets 4SD

So that covers the rest that Cox doesn’t reach in San Diego.

The people that don’t get 4SD are the ones that don’t get cable in San Diego. Satellite or UVerse customers.

"Don’t get nervous. Norv is in charge."

creanium.net
Bolts from the Blue

by creanium on Dec 6, 2010 10:09 AM PST up reply actions  

I will need to check

but I would bet only around 50% of the population gets cable

"Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!"

by Ron Mexico on Dec 6, 2010 10:12 AM PST up reply actions  

50% of the population? or 50% of the land area in San Diego county?

I highly doubt half of the county’s 3 million residences don’t have access to Cable TV. Heck, the 10 biggest cities within the county account for 2.5 million people. That’s 83% of the county living in the 10 most populous cities in the county, all of which I just verified are service by both Cox and Time Warner.

"Don’t get nervous. Norv is in charge."

creanium.net
Bolts from the Blue

by creanium on Dec 6, 2010 11:00 AM PST up reply actions  

San Diego is one of the most cable-wired cities in the country.

I got my first cable service from Mission Cable in 1974 – in OB, of all places. St.Louis’ mdeia market is indeed 15 million. Their TV network includes eleven stations in five states. They also had 3.2 million in attendance, never had a real estate boom/bust, and have more industry than San Diego. You can say the same about the Twins’ and Brewers’ markets too. The Rockies had a boom/bust, but a bigger, multi-state media market, and their attendance can support a $85 million payroll.

San Diego, Tampa Bay and KC are the three smallest media/revenue markets, but KC’s owner will spend money, though his GM is a moron. The A’s have to compete with the Giants and have to play in Al Davis’ football stadium. The Pirates and Marlins owners are just cheap bustards.

by wegotballsley on Dec 6, 2010 12:11 PM PST up reply actions  

38% of the population has cable

"Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!"

by Ron Mexico on Dec 7, 2010 7:45 AM PST up reply actions  

Mexico

is a pretty large market, I’d say.

by SanDiegoKev on Dec 6, 2010 10:15 AM PST up reply actions  

TJ should count as part of SD

and with enough lobbying, maybe the organization could pull it off.

Oh internet, what a wicked web you weave.

by Mad_Villain on Dec 6, 2010 10:29 AM PST up reply actions  

According to The hated Alderson.

The Padres 1/30th share of Japanese televison money is greater than a 100% share of Mexican television money.

by field39 on Dec 6, 2010 10:40 AM PST up reply actions  

Totally agree

Ron, you might be right about all of the salient points… but use some civility.

by Zen Blade on Dec 6, 2010 11:49 AM PST up reply actions  

20 million a year more for one guy?

I’m all for more money. I’d LOVE to say “Where can we spent our 25 million next this offseason?” but we can’t. He was going to go. If he was on at least 25 other teams, he was going to go. That’s why they call it “Ryan Howard money” or " Mark Teixeira money". There are only a few guys that can get that much and only a few teams that can supply it.

Plus, St.Louis is a constant contender for the playoffs. People will pay to see them play because they have a winning team. The Padres are now going to try and stay afloat.

"Well, it's just ineffable." "Oh, so I'm not 'F-able'?" "No, no, ineffable means it can't be explained." "So I'm stupid?"

by Friar Fever on Dec 6, 2010 9:58 AM PST up reply actions  

agreed

I am happy for Agon, he will be a star in Boston, and get paid gobs of cash, but it just doesn’t make sense to pay Agon $20M a year unless our payroll is $130M+

Look at the success of teams when 1 player makes more than 25% of the payroll, its always failure

"Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!"

by Ron Mexico on Dec 6, 2010 10:08 AM PST up reply actions  

Given the choice:

I prefer the best possible player, as opposed to the guy who happens to fill a current need.

by field39 on Dec 6, 2010 9:55 AM PST reply actions  

Trade is not horrible

but it SUCKS for us.

Logically the Padres had to see if they could get more value out of 1 season of AGon plus 2 supplemental picks.

So to judge the season, is what do we replace Agon with, if we are able to get 80% of him at 1b, but improve 2b and SS with the money, plus 3-4 prospects we end up ahead.

Now if we go to the season with the team listed above, then Jed screwed this one up.

"Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!"

by Ron Mexico on Dec 6, 2010 9:57 AM PST reply actions  

new talent

don’t worry, there is plenty of crazy talent coming in the next few years.

by Cobb1 on Dec 6, 2010 10:09 AM PST reply actions  

I hate that the prospects we got back all had bad years

I hate that, to justify the trade, you need to dream on all three guys fulfilling potential, instead of pointing at their performance and saying look how awesome they were.

by benrb on Dec 6, 2010 10:10 AM PST reply actions  

I just hate baseball

I think the system is broken. Unless one of the many “prospects” we have drafted or traded for become a star, we are screwed.

I remember reading somewhere that the prospects Texas got in return for Texiera helped get them to the World Series (Feliz and Andrus). They did, but Josh Hamilton was the key. He was that guy in the lineup. Do we (or will we) get that guy?

Adrian finishes as the best 1B to be a Padre. He could arguably be the 2nd best positional player the Padres have had. He never had a moment(like Caminiti or Garvey), but I know I always appreciated his power to all fields and his aggresive defense at first. He will be missed.

"A man has got to have a code." -Bunk, Season 1; Omar, Season 4.

by L Magico on Dec 6, 2010 10:19 AM PST reply actions  

We had Adrian for 1 year....

If the four prospects we get turn into two every day players, each having 2-3 decent years, we “win”.

The only way this goes to hell is if all of the prospects (including two who should be major league ready in 2012) self destruct.

Yes, things will suck in 2011. Things will likely suck a little less in 2012, yet still suck.
BUT, if the trade works out, 2013-2014 will be VERY good years.

Hoyer is the GM, Moorad is the owner. It was their call, and they went for it. If it fails, then you have the right to piss all over them.

Until then, you can’t.

by Zen Blade on Dec 6, 2010 11:56 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm not sure Kelly or Rizzo will be ready in 2012.

Kelly struggled in AA this year, though supposedly it was a “developmental year” and therefore not a true measure of his talent. Either way, it would probably behoove him to spend another year in AA mastering the new skills he learned before moving to AAA and beyond. Rizzo had a good year in AA, though there are still aspects of his game he needs to work on and it’s an open question whether a lefty power hitter like him will succeed in Petco, unless he learns some new skills. He may start the year in AAA or AA depending on where the Padres think he is, and could be a September call-up if he moves quickly.

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"How appropriate! You fight like a cow!"
Faceless slider-tossing goofs FTW.

by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 6, 2010 12:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, after seeing Latos move quickly

and knowing how well the Padres develop pitching, seriously… we do pitching really well.

I would not be surprised if Kelly move quickly, and in 2012 he was back end of the rotation for half the year (or something like that).

by Zen Blade on Dec 6, 2010 12:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Latos was a special circumstance.

He was dominating hitters at the lower levels, there was an extreme need for pitching on the major league team, and the organization wanted to try and get fans excited. All those factors conspired together to move Mat quickly through the system.

It would be a mistake to expect the same thing to happen for Kelly. First and foremost, he’s not dominating like Mat did. In fact, he struggled quite a bit in AA in 2010. Second, the Padres have done a much better job at stockpiling pitching for the major league club. Assuming we sign/trade for another vet, we’ll have 5 rotation spots filled plus Luebke and LeBlanc in AAA. There will be no need to rush Kelly. Those two concerns will outweigh any need to excite fans about the future. Especially when you consider we NEED these guys to pan out, they won’t rush any of them.

My name is Guybrush Threepwood, and I'm a mighty pirate.
"How appropriate! You fight like a cow!"
Faceless slider-tossing goofs FTW.

by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 6, 2010 1:12 PM PST up reply actions  

And if we don't pick up another vet, LeBlanc comes right back

Right? He’d be ahead of Luebke in the pecking order?

As for people to sign… Jeremy Bonderman, Justin Duscherer (sp?), Jeff Francis, Rich Harden, Braden Looper, Jamie Moyer, Carl Pavano, Brad Penny, Andy Pettite, Jerrod Washburn, Brandon Webb, our boy CY, and (chew on this) Cliff Lee are still available.

Some of those you can reject out of hand (Lee, Pavano, probably Harden, Young and Moyer) for one reason or another, but I’d like to see the Padres make a run at some other established veteran. There are a lot of guys besides Harangutan who could put together a great season if they were Petco’d and could concievably slog through lots of innings on the way.

I also want a Joel Zumaya trade for Christmas, although we have absolutely zilch left to deal with if Heath is off the table.

The Padres are good, but make no mistake: we've gotta beef up the linwup.

If I had a nickel from every SBN blog that has banned me, Arrowhead Pride would owe me 5¢.

by StrangeBroP25 on Dec 6, 2010 8:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Most of those guys either suck or are out of our price range.

Essentially we’re going to have to wait until the end of the signing period again and see what bargains we can pick up. I’m pretty sure, based on what they’ve said, that they’d really like to pick up another vet somehow, so both LeBlanc and Luebke can be in AAA to start the year. We got lucky last year in that we had no major injuries at all in our starting rotation, outside of CY. You can’t count on that happening again, and it will be good to have two MLB-ready starters waiting in AAA to fill in for the inevitable injuries.

My name is Guybrush Threepwood, and I'm a mighty pirate.
"How appropriate! You fight like a cow!"
Faceless slider-tossing goofs FTW.

by Zach (maestro876) on Dec 7, 2010 9:40 AM PST up reply actions  

Oh, i agree with trading him

I just hate that it happened. The Indians had to go through this (twice!) with Sabathia and Lee. Milwaukee will probably have to do this with Fielder. The Pirates, they are on a completely different path. Its baseball and it happens.

Its just the “structure” of baseball stinks. This isn’t entirely a Red Sox/Yankees big payroll thing,( WTF Washington? Jayson Werth for 7 yrs and 125 mil? Worst contract ever), but something is wrong when half the teams serve as a minor league for big money teams.

I’m just getting old. And I would like to see one of my team’s acheive success at the championship level. Its hard to be “happy” about a team in 4-5 years. And when you have a legit top player, it sucks to have to trade him.

"A man has got to have a code." -Bunk, Season 1; Omar, Season 4.

by L Magico on Dec 6, 2010 2:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, I can't believe this really truly happened

While I’m relieved as a Rockies fan, to not have to face him 18 times a year…I think our division is the poorer for it.

Condolences…….(and f the Red Sox)

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Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
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by SDcat09 on Dec 6, 2010 11:48 AM PST reply actions  

Money quote from that post

“The Padres have one Major League infielder right now and that’s debatable.”

by Zen Blade on Dec 6, 2010 11:56 AM PST reply actions  

I think Headley still plays 3rd....

"Well, it's just ineffable." "Oh, so I'm not 'F-able'?" "No, no, ineffable means it can't be explained." "So I'm stupid?"

by Friar Fever on Dec 6, 2010 11:59 AM PST up reply actions  

OK

You hate that the Padres have weakened the team for 2011. So you’re willing to throw away your entire future for the sake of one more year of Gonzo. You also don’t understand that Casey Kelly actually might be ready by say the middle of August, and actually could help the Padres win the division. The same goes for Rizzo.

The sadistic way you talk about the Red Sox is odd, and you are wrong in thinking that “giving up prospects to them is nothing.” They highly value their top guys, and they are definitely sad to see these guys go. They very rarely make deals like this.

In terms of the Padres needs, if you could handle waiting 6 months/ a year, then you will start to see your needs at SP and 1B being met. There you go.

You say that one more year of Gonzo would have more impact than all the prospects combined. HAHA! Six years of Kelly, who should be a dominant mainstay in the rotation within a year or two, and six years of Rizzo who you guys will love. All of this for league minimum salary, and you want to throw it all away for one last gasp of Adrian Gonzalez.

And then you say that it will take forever for it to pay off, and that simply isn’t true. Kelly and Rizzo have been seasoning for years now, and like I said might even help the Padres this year. In fact, I will personally guarantee that if healthy they will be on the major league team in September. 2014-2015 is an insane estimate for their arrival. And I’m not even mentioning Fuentes, a first round pick, who should take a bit longer and is not as good a prospect. Seriously, basically nothing you said was correct.

by revived0103 on Dec 7, 2010 1:08 PM PST reply actions  

Are you the player to be named later?

Because…you can stay in Boston or wherever they manufacture their prospects. You guys got the golden ticket. You’re welcome. It’s a bit of a downer to lose our guy so there will be some kind of hatred for it. Yeah, Rizzo and Kelly could be ready. COULD. We pay our guys with jelly beans and 1998 NL Champion hats. It sucks to see this go down, especially when we know it was going to happen forever, but welcome to America’s Finest City. We have Comic Con, but don’t have the money to keep what nearly got us into the playoffs. ESPECIALLY when we gave up prospects to get them and now they play for a rival (TEJADA!!!!). It’s tough for us. I’m glad we good something from the deal, but that’s about it. It’s better than nothing.

And jbox, keep up the good work!

"Well, it's just ineffable." "Oh, so I'm not 'F-able'?" "No, no, ineffable means it can't be explained." "So I'm stupid?"

by Friar Fever on Dec 7, 2010 4:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Nothing I said was correct?

1. The team is weaker in 2011 without Adrian. True.
2. Padres are losing a year of Adrian in his prime. True.
3. Return on trade doesn’t fill any of our current needs. True.
4. I hate the Red Sox. This trade increased their chances of winning WS. True.
5. Gonzalez is amazingly consistent. No guarantees that prospects will perform or ever make it to MLB. True.
6. Won’t see dividends from prospects until years from now. True.

by jbox on Dec 7, 2010 9:33 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Quod Erat Demonstrandum

"When the going gets tough... TheGrandHatching pops in later." -- WG

by TheGrandHatching on Dec 8, 2010 8:47 AM PST up reply actions  

Fine

but i meant more your reasoning behind all those things

by revived0103 on Dec 10, 2010 3:38 AM PST up reply actions  

We have to wait and see...

That’s the toughest part of this. We’re not quite sure yet how the Peavy trade will work out, or how the Gonzalez trade will work out, or how Tate Donovan will work out, or Everett Williams.

However, we do know how the McGriff trade went in 1993, and how the all the number one picks like Ben Davis, Sean Burroughs, Kevin Nicholson, Vince Faison, Khalil Greene, and Matt Bush have gone so I can understand your doubt. I’m frankly trying to keep my patience as well and I’m not really sure how this will work out. But I do know that it’s too early to tell either way.

In the meantime, damn, this team has a lot of holes on the offense.

by charmeljun on Dec 8, 2010 2:20 AM PST reply actions  

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