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The Case for Mark Loretta's Hall of Fame Enshrinement

We just rehired one of my all-time (well, all-time based on how many years I've been following them) favorite Padres, Mark Loretta, as a "special assistant to baseball operations". Now that he's retired, it's a slow countdown for his Cooperstown eligibility. Should he get in? Hell yes. His stats, and how they measure up with the other 17 2B's in the hall, are after the jump.

Star-divide

Career: 1,713 hits (more than Johnny Evers and Jackie Robinson, and only a handful fewer than Tony Lazzeri)
76 home runs (Would be 6th-fewest, in front of Ed Collins, Evers, Nellie Fox, Bill Herman, and Bid McPhee)
629 RBI (in front of only Evers)
Average of .295 (Good for 9th on the list-- beats Bob Doerr, Evers, Fox, Lazzeri, Bill Mazerowski, McPhee, Joe Morgan, Ryne Sandberg, and Red Schoendienst)
Slugging % of .395 (Tops Evers, Fox, Mazerowski, McPhee, and Schoendienst)
On-base % of .360 (Better than Evers, Fox, Mazerowski, McPhee, Sandberg and Schoendienst; just a whisker behind Doerr, Frank Frisch, and Herman)
47 steals (Better than only Mazerowski)
768 runs scored (ONE behind Mazerowski-- which leaves him dead last)

Now that you've seen that (and laughed at how pathetic Johnny Evers's resume is), some factors working for and against Mark.

THE CASE FOR:

Two-Time All-Star: In 2004 with San Diego and 2006 with Boston. Those will give him a boost.

Silver Slugger Award: Also in 2004, his career year, when he notched a .335 average. He's come close to a few batting titles, but no cigar.

Winner of the Hutch Award: 2006 with the Sox. The Hutch "is awarded annually to an active player who best exemplifies the fighting spirit and competitive desire to win."

Clubhouse leader: Voters like this.

 

THE CASE AGAINST:

What about him?: As well as he stacks up on paper, what has he done thoughout his career? No ring, no pennant, toiled for 8 years on an awful Brewers team. He hasn't done anything spectacular either for any of his teams, or for the game of baseball (like Robinson).

Stats are telling: Look again at those lines up there. Notice anything? He's squarely in the middle-to-back of the pack amongst them. You would think that he would need to lead or at least be near the leading edge in more categories, especially because he has...

No name recognition: He's an unspectacular journeyman. Outside of Milwaukee and San Diego, only serious baseball fans would know who he is. This could be a problem when the Hall comes calling.

 

LAST WORD:

I think he has at least best an outside shot of making it to Cooperstown, especially considering the lack of marquee second basemen who have just recently retired and will therefore be eligible in his year. He'll probably get stuck behind Randy Johnson and Mike Mussina (I imagine the latter will in turn be stuck behind Jeff Kent and Curt Schilling in his first year of eligibility).

 

What do y'all think?

Poll
Does Mark Loretta belong in the National Baseball Hall of Fame?
Yes.
9 votes
No.
106 votes

115 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost was written by a member of the Gaslamp Ball community and does not necessarily reflect the views of the Gaslamp Ball managers or SB Nation.

Comment 24 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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You're nuts.

Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
Bolts From The Blue "There’s a gleam men. Let’s go get the gleam! Focus and Finish!!! One play at a time!!! Let's Go!!!"
Representing the San Diego State University Aztecs, home of the 2009 College Cheerleading National Champions in the all women's division.

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Jan 30, 2010 8:34 PM PST reply actions  

But it's the good kind of nuts.

Banned from Arrowhead Pride... and Music City Miracles certainly don't like me very much, either.

"Ah act the way ah feel." --Elvis Presley

by StrangeBroP25 on Jan 30, 2010 8:54 PM PST up reply actions  

I added a poll for you

so we can get a real good idea of what people think.

by jbox on Jan 30, 2010 8:50 PM PST reply actions  

Thanks.

So far it’s been most telling.

Banned from Arrowhead Pride... and Music City Miracles certainly don't like me very much, either.

"Ah act the way ah feel." --Elvis Presley

by StrangeBroP25 on Jan 30, 2010 9:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Come on guys!

Can anyone tell me why he doesn’t go? Including or other than the reasons I noted above?

Banned from Arrowhead Pride... and Music City Miracles certainly don't like me very much, either.

"Ah act the way ah feel." --Elvis Presley

by StrangeBroP25 on Jan 30, 2010 8:56 PM PST reply actions  

Mark was a solid hitter, who played a solid second base.

He won’t even get a courtesy vote. This is MLB, not the NFL.

by field39 on Jan 30, 2010 9:01 PM PST up reply actions  

He is not an icon of the era he played.

He has set no standards. He has broken no standards.

I hate you,

by Mad_Villain on Jan 30, 2010 9:32 PM PST up reply actions  

great fan post

I can’t tell whether or not it’s a joke.

by Billy Almon on Feb 1, 2010 11:40 AM PST reply actions  

Joke?

I’m not sure if this a joke or not, but it was crazy enough to get me to register. Evers being in the HOF is certainly questionable (and likely is only in because of the poem) but if his stats are pathetic, what is Lorettas? Evers played during the deadball era, really can’t compare too many offensive stats. Looking at OPS+ which is adjusted for park factors and is compared to the players of their time, Evers has a 106 OPS+. Not that bad of a number. Loretta has a 98 career OPS+. Not earth shattering bad, but certainly not good. He wont even stay on the ballot most likely.

by DiabloRojas on Feb 1, 2010 12:46 PM PST reply actions  

Maybe if all of his seasons looked like his 2004 campaign he’d be a longshot.

Bolts from the Blue // "He looks like a catfish" - Nick Hardwick on Brandon Siler
Bloody Elbow // " looks like your comment violated rule #4. and it’s a heck of a rule, rule #4" - Kid Nate

by Richard Wade on Feb 1, 2010 3:03 PM PST reply actions  

I bet he's the lone "yes" vote

Yup, I'm the nut who believes Mark Loretta is a possible future Hall of Famer.

by StrangeBroP25 on Feb 1, 2010 5:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Loretta was definitely best 2B in Padres History

Robbie Alomar? Not in the Padre years (and before he spit in the ump’s face and later got accused of passing the HIV)

Alan Wiggins? Not even in the ’84 cocaine-fueled campaign

Quilvio Veras? Fun to watch in ’98, but out of baseball 4 years later.

Bip Roberts? Fun to watch and fun name to say.

Bret Boone? Oh, if only he had started the “vitamin supplements” cycle one year early.

Marcus Giles? More fun to watch his post-Padre meltdown at Charger games and on the 8 in El Cajon at 3AM.

by MarshmeloMartinez on Feb 2, 2010 4:44 PM PST reply actions  

Ozzie Smith?

Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
Bolts From The Blue "There’s a gleam men. Let’s go get the gleam! Focus and Finish!!! One play at a time!!! Let's Go!!!"
it kind of reminds me of that movie "You've got mail"...I'm Tom Hanks he's Meg Ryan -- Padres prospect Matt Antonelli on sdsuaztec4

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Feb 3, 2010 7:41 AM PST up reply actions  

oh ya

Mountain West Connection ::Above the Rest::
Bolts From The Blue "There’s a gleam men. Let’s go get the gleam! Focus and Finish!!! One play at a time!!! Let's Go!!!"
it kind of reminds me of that movie "You've got mail"...I'm Tom Hanks he's Meg Ryan -- Padres prospect Matt Antonelli on sdsuaztec4

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Feb 3, 2010 8:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Eh. the Hall of Fame's a joke anyway

until they admit Joey Cora.

www.FriarsOnCardboard.blogspot.com
"jbox does not drink coffee, as it makes him clean house big time." ~Kev

by TheThinGwynn on Feb 3, 2010 2:08 AM PST reply actions  

OK, Let's take this seriously for a second...

…even though it shouldn’t be.

Let’s try applying Bill James’ Keltner list:

Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball? Did anybody, while he was active, ever suggest that he was the best player in baseball?

His mother might have thought so, but there is no evidence that anyone else ever did.

Was he the best player on his team?

In 2003 and 2004 he might be considered the best player (marginally) on two mediocre Padre teams.

Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position?

Maybe in 2004 he could be considered the best 2B. Otherwise no.

Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races?

Probably not. He played 2B, not very well, on the 2005 Padres team that finished 82-80 and was blown to bits by the Cardinals in the NLDS. He was a bench player on 2 division winning Dodger teams.

Was he a good enough player that he could continue to play regularly after passing his prime?

Yes. He was a regular until 35 and a bench player for two more years, despite the fact that he really wasn’t very good after he was 33.

Is he the very best player in baseball history who is not in the Hall of Fame?

Please. Donne moi un break.

Are most players who have comparable career statistics in the Hall of Fame?

No. None of the 10 most comparable players to him, measured by similarity scores, are in the hall of fame, or even considered for it.

Do the player’s numbers meet Hall of Fame standards?

No. Not by any metric I could find. For instance, he scores 23 on the Hall of Fame Standards metric (average HOF=50) and 27 on the Hall of Fame Monitor (likely HOF=100. These rank 609 and 639 all time. (And yes, they do adjust for position.)

These scores surprised me, as I expected him to score much lower. The stats still don’t meet hall of fame standards.

Is there any evidence to suggest that the player was significantly better or worse than is suggested by his statistics?

A little. He has that "Clubhouse Leader™ label.

Is he the best player at his position who is eligible for the Hall of Fame but not in?

Surely you jest. I don’t have time for an exhaustive list, but Craig Biggio and Jeff Kent would have to be ahead of him for a start.

How many MVP-type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP award? If not, how many times was he close?

He had a pretty good year in 2004, when he finished 9th. That was the only time he ever made the ballot.

How many All-Star-type seasons did he have? How many All-Star games did he play in? Did most of the other players who played in this many go to the Hall of Fame?

He played in the all star game twice (2004 and 2006). One could argue for his inclusion in 2003, but then again he was really not that good in 2006 so the two kind of balance. Most HOFers played in more than 2 all star games.

If this man were the best player on his team, would it be likely that the team could win the pennant?

Unlikely at best.

What impact did the player have on baseball history? Was he responsible for any rule changes? Did he introduce any new equipment? Did he change the game in any way?

Not that I know of.

Did the player uphold the standards of sportsmanship and character that the Hall of Fame, in its written guidelines, instructs us to consider?

 I see no reason that he didn’t.

In short, nothing about Mark Loretta suggests that he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.

by JayR2 on Feb 7, 2010 10:55 AM PST reply actions  

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