why is giles batting 3rd?
by trade*for*trevor*cahill on Jun 8, 2009 7:36 PM PDT
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Giles is hitting in front of Adrian who is one of the best hitters in baseball and he still cant crack a .200 average. Imagine if he were hitting fifth what his average would be; somewhere south of .150 . Why not let Headly hit 3rd and get some good pitches to hit instead of wasting that golden spot on a bum like giles. Look at ethier and how much he improved in a short time hitting in front of Manny. If headly is the future, he should be given the opportunity.
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CAUSE STONE COLD SAID SO
EVERYDAY I'M HUSTLIN'
by CurbEnthusiasm on Jun 8, 2009 7:44 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Just for that
I’m gonna pour down a couple “Steveweisers”.
www.FriarsOnCardboard.blogspot.com
"jbox does not drink coffee, as it makes him clean house big time." ~Kev
by TheThirdGonzalez on Jun 8, 2009 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Giles
He takes alot of pitches, but I don’t think so much this year. He needs to pick things up
Big Numbers
Have a look
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2008/11/5/654318/best-right-fielders-of-200
Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? ◔ヮ◔
Uncommon Sportsman :: Absurdity in play
you can fool yourself with all these esoteric stats but we could pay someone league minimum for the production we have gotten this year from giles, and with all the one year contracts signed this year, 9 mil could have gotten much more, especially in front of adrian.
by trade*for*trevor*cahill on Jun 9, 2009 2:25 PM PDT reply actions
Those esoteric stats
are pretty clear for anyone who doesn’t have an obvious bias against the player. Do I really need to explain that Headley has struck out twice as many times as Giles in fewer at bats so far, therefore making him unsuitable to be in front of Adrian?
Let’s see, do you want a guy who gets on 4 out of every 10 times in front of Adrian, or a guy who gets on less than a third of the time? Clear enough for you?
And, I know you don’t understand this, but they’d have had to buy out Giles contract to send him on his way. That buyout would have been $3mm, so you go find your replacement player for $6mm, then get back to me, because I love a good laugh.
Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? ◔ヮ◔
Uncommon Sportsman :: Absurdity in play
by Axion on Jun 9, 2009 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Your inability to comprehend relatively simple statistics doesn’t invalidate those statistics.
Bolts from the Blue // "Game over." - Jamal Williams
Bloody Elbow // "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken
good point
Giles BaseRuns-derived offensive linear weights, with park adjustments from 2008 far outweighs his .194 average and two homeruns this year, and the park adjustment puts the stats into perspective because i can remember plenty of balls giles crushed at home this year that died on the track, not
by trade*for*trevor*cahill on Jun 9, 2009 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah
his WAR last year is being overemphasized. he was 1.1 WAR in 2007, now he is -1.3, and 38 years old.
So is Raul Ibanez
Which means… nothing.
Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? ◔ヮ◔
Uncommon Sportsman :: Absurdity in play
well
Maybe Raul is on the juice and Brian is off. :)
He wasn’t that great in 2007 and he is worse now. Those are also stat based evaluations. And different players age differently. Giles loss of power over the years was not just a petco creation.
Nevertheless, his babip suggests he isn’t this bad, and the padres don’t have a lot of great hitters. Plus Hairston got injured.
Pre-juice, 38 year old guys were gettin’ old.
anybody who knows baseball
knows giles is not an impact player who can hit in the third hole or any other hole. put all these statistics aside and think about his impact on the field and you should come to the conclusion that we need to Edmonds this bum!
by trade*for*trevor*cahill on Jun 13, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions
well trevor
I tried to address this on the given statistical terms. I think they actually do support somewhat what your “anyone who knows” position.
First, of course, while it is not the necessary sole explanation for a sudden huge dropoff in performance since last year, it is undeniably true that players skills decline as they age. Axiom’s claim that Raul Ibanez’s performance at age 38 renders my admittedly tossed off “hey he’s 38” somehow an invalid “argument” is ironic, since he is taking one guys career year as some kind of negation of the general pattern of ballplayers and human beings. They get old.
Giles used to hit 18, 19 homers on the road when he was with Pitt in ‘99 and 2000. Full seasons in SD his homers have been 23 20 15 14 13 12 2 (admittedly the 13 was in fewer at bats), but that is a picture of his power declining, and it ain’t just petco. Is it age? I dunno. Did he juice and did he stop? I dunno. But it is a stark and obvious decline.
Now, is Giles a real ass and woman beater? Gratuitous, but from what I read about this guy, I do not like him. But I am sticking with the stats. This guy has clearly been a very very good player, he declined some, petco maxed some of his ability, but he is in free fall this year. Nice game last night notwithstanding.
Again, his babip is awfully low. he has had some bad luck. I haven’t seen him play much at all this year, but the stats suggest he hasn’t been good.
His wOBA in 2006 was .342, in ’07 .338. Not great. Last year it was .376. Pretty darn good. But his babip was .321, highest of his career. Hitters have some effect on this, of course, but he may have been somewhat lucky. This helped arrest the appearance of the decline, but the general decline pattern may have still been there. This year his wOBA is .260. That is awful.
He will likely pick up somewhat. But I think the people defending Giles via the stats ignored a lot of what the stats were telling them. It didn’t predict this much dropoff, but, .342, .338, ..330, .315 shouldn’t have been thought of as out of line. Things don’t work that patly, so he went .376 and now .260 instead, and may end up .300 or so. Who knows?
In any event, I think ’08 fooled Dave Cameron, and others. And Giles performance this year reminds me of the Hemingway character, asked how he went bankrupt, answered something like “Two ways: slowly and then suddenly.”
Put the statistics aside because they don't support your bias
Got it, done.
/thread
Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? ◔ヮ◔
Uncommon Sportsman :: Absurdity in play
the funny thing is
they do.
Giles does not get on base 4/10 times as you implied. he gets on less than Headley. Admittedly, that is because Giles babip is so low, but his walk rate has also declined.
Headley may not be great, but he may improve. And the Pads don’t really have anyone who should hit 3rd. Maybe hairston. When is he due back? :)
you misinterprited
who I was replying to, and that was my point.
Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? ◔ヮ◔
Uncommon Sportsman :: Absurdity in play
is it just me
or does this axion guy always end his statements with some totally gay comment like “got it done” or “owned” or talking about how he needs a “good laugh”. People who do things like this are totally fags so its not surprising that he backs Giles.
by trade*for*trevor*cahill on Jun 14, 2009 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm down with debate or even arguements
but the “f-a” word has no place here. Or anywhere else.
Got it owned.
www.FriarsOnCardboard.blogspot.com
"jbox does not drink coffee, as it makes him clean house big time." ~Kev
by TheThirdGonzalez on Jun 15, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
he does
it’s so annoying that he disagrees with my bias on my own fanpost. where does he get off?
Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? ◔ヮ◔
Uncommon Sportsman :: Absurdity in play
Also, Axion
Raul Ibanez is NOT 38. he just turned 37 on June 2. Giles turned 38 on january 20th or so. He is a year and a half older than Ibanez.
those esoteric stats...
Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? ◔ヮ◔
Uncommon Sportsman :: Absurdity in play
puting aside
the name calling (which didn’t come from you, the most i got from you was my argument was invalid, which is fair enough), and trevor’s announced disdain for the esoteric stats (although there is a post up there that suggests he does understand the stats, what I was driving at is the following:
The stats support Trevor. Giles has been awful. Although the Pads have managed to put together a good streak at one point and can’t be said to be out of the wild card completely, it is more likely that headley will be a member of the next good Pads team than Giles. Since hairston is out, give him a try batting in front of Adrian Gonzalez.
I have already walked through all my arguments why, yes, Giles was good last year, but he was in overall decline which went precipitous this year. He could bounce back somewhat, but so what? I dunno, showcase him a bit, hope he gets hot and see if Omar minaya has another heath bell he needs to unload? Please no, I am a Mets fan.
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