Playing to Win at baseball

by Dex on Sep 15, 2008 2:00 PM PDT Comment 6 comments

I'm reading several articles written by David Sirlin, the videogame designer and player, on Playing to Win. The basic concept from his articles (and presumably from his book) is that in competitive games, many people are bound by their own made up set of rules and morals that actively work against them winning the game. He refers to these people as "scrubs". Scrubs are the people who will refer to some tactics as "cheap" even though it might be strategically, the best tactic to win a game.

It got me to thinking about baseball. Of all competitive sports, I'd say baseball's the one filled with the most "scrubs" as people say. It's perpetuated by the fans, myself included.

One of the more obvious "scrub" incidents to Padres fans was when Ben Davis bunted to break up Schilling's no-hitter. While that was somewhat unique, that sort of scrub situation actually comes up somewhat often. A pitcher will get to the 6th inning with a high pitch count and having given up no hits and suddenly the question becomes, "Do we leave this guy in to try to get the no-no?" All of a sudden, there's an extra rule that a team is playing by that's been self imposed and actively working against them. All of a sudden, one team is playing like scrubs.

I know it's something that gets pointed out often, but it's just interesting to think that professionals who claim to always play to win often times are holding back for no good reason at all.

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I'd like to see the Padres be the first team

that Plays to Win.

by jbox on Sep 15, 2008 2:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Interesting

I wonder what Sirlin thinks about Chase Utley or Shane Victorino when they repeatedly plow into catchers, while leading with their helmets. They’ve put Nationals catcher, Jesus Flores on the shelf once, and given Braves catcher, Brian McCann a concussion. Both are integral bats in their respective lineups, and taking them out most certainly puts the Phillies in an improved situation to win, but at the cost of looking like dirty gamers. So if there were to not risk hurting another human being, I wonder if that would constitute them as scrubs?

It’s important to play with victory in your best interests, but I’ve never heard of any situation where it should be condoned to hurt your fellow man in order to do so.

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Sep 15, 2008 2:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Sirlin on sports

I read where he doesn’t find physical sports interesting when it comes to game strategy, which I would totally disagree with. The NFL is a good example of making it explicitly against the rules to really try to hurt people. If physically injuring another player is a valid tactic within the context of the game, and we don’t want people to injure other people, then it would probably stand to reason that it should be against the rules.

It’s the whole reason why they had to make a penalty for hitting a batter with a pitch. If being hit by a pitch was just called a ball like in old timey time days, the strategy of the game would be very different.

by Dex on Sep 15, 2008 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting

I guess each person draws the line within themselves. How many corners are they willing to cut from the rules before it diminishes the accomplishment of winning? Cool find.

Protip: High-quality lulz are achieved through punishing scrubs using the very tactics they complain about.

Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?

by Axion on Sep 15, 2008 3:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

This reminds me of video gaming tactics as well

Since, you know, this guy is a video game designer. For some reason, I always strive to have my sporting video games reflect realistic outcomes. For example, I could swing for power in every at bat in MLB 2K7 and have a roster that ends with 5 players at 50+ HRs and win every game 15-2. But where’s the fun in that? By playing by my own perceived rules, it costs me video game wins.

by 'Eaters on Sep 16, 2008 2:30 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

yeah

That’s like the reverse Madden thing. Have you seen those commercials where he complains about people going for it on 4th and long? It might not make sense in real football, but in the videogame, lots of times it made plenty of sense if you were actually trying to win the game.

by Dex on Sep 16, 2008 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs