Should the Padres Pay Khalil for the Rest of the '08 Season?
by Drama on Aug 5, 2008 8:35 AM PDT
56 comments
So, in WG's SLPiH this morning, Tom Krasovic from the San Diego Union Tribune has an item (kinda buried) regarding Khalil Greene.
Five days after shortstop Khalil Greene's self-inflicted hand fracture, Padres CEO Sandy Alderson was asked if the club will try to avoid paying Greene's $5.5 million salary for the 6-8 weeks he's to be on the disabled list.
"Anything we decide or conclude with respect to Khalil and his contracted will be a private matter that we wouldn't comment on," Alderson said. "That will be true regardless of what transpires."
A player's agent said the players union would respond with a grievance against the Padres if the club attempts to deny Greene any salary.
I don't condone what Khalil did in any way, but I think it's idiotic to even put the idea out there that it's a possibility the team might try and avoid paying his salary because his injury was self-inflicted.
If they have no intention of trying to hold his pay...then Sandy should have just simply answered "No."
This FanPost was written by a member of the Gaslamp Ball community and does not necessarily reflect the views of the Gaslamp Ball managers or SB Nation.
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I'm no math major...
But I figure they’d save about $1.6 million if he’s out the full 8 weeks.
by Drama on Aug 5, 2008 8:43 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Teams need a punching bag in the locker room
“In case of anger, punch here”
It’s the teams fault for not supplying proper equipment. They have no valid case for recouping the money.
I don't have to always be right. I just have to always think I'm right.
by Wonko on Aug 5, 2008 8:54 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Punching Bag
That was the only good thing about having P-Keg on the roster.
by Drama on Aug 5, 2008 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Porting my comments
from the SLPiH, here are a couple reasons why I think trying to get money from Khalil is a bad idea for the team (and yep, it’s all about Khalil):
1) This will further strain the relationship between Khalil and the Padres. Some of you may or may not care about it, but the fact of the mattter is that he’s the best shortstop in franchise history (he’s also approaching one of the longer tenured ones). The team has no workable solution for shortstop that is anywhere near ready. Flaws and all, Khalil remains our best option at the position for the next few years. During this past offseason, negotiation between Khalil and the FO seemed to be strained and slow going. Rumors were floated about Khalil not wanting to be a Padre (which he eventually denied, whether or not you believe it is up to you) and only a 2-year deal was struck, leaving many to wonder what the hell was going on. If the team actively pursues any recompensation, it could be the last straw in what already appears to be a strained relationship. Of course, Khalil may already want to take off after next season anyway, so the degree of risk here is an unknown. Regarldess, there does exist some risk in further straining the relationship.
2) This would be a publicity nightmare. Remember, this is a team that blew $6 million on fewer than 100 ABs of Jim Edmonds. Trying to recoup $1.6 million (assuming Drama’s estimate is correct) would seem kind of petty, especially given that Khalil is one of the most popular players on the team. Over the last five years, he’s built up a reputation of being a solid player who keeps his head down and makes bewidlering, if insightful, quotes to the media. Fans have grown to love him as our quirky robotic shortstop who does his job without creating a fuss.
I’m not defending what he did. It was incredibly stupid. Khalil would likely be the first person to tell you that. But the guy probably deserves a mulligan here. He’s kept himself out of trouble and has never created any problems for the team (unlike a certain Jaeger-swilling Cy Young award-winner). From strictly a cost-benefit analysis, does the $1.6 million really outweigh any perceived cheapness from the FO? Probably not, since many people already think the FO are needlessly frugal.
I do think that there’s a legitimate possibility Khalil agrees to pay back the money on his own. I have no empirical proof to support this reasoning, he just seems like that kind of guy. I caught part of his interview with the BP show the other day, and he sounds incredibly depressed about the whole affair. I think it’s probably best for everyone to just let this whole thing go and look forward to next year.
by Phantom on Aug 5, 2008 8:59 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Obscene Homerism...
Let’s be honest here…Khalil is no Rafael Furcal.
by Drama on Aug 5, 2008 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally
After all, the guy has stolen hundreds more bags. And everyone knows that stolen bases = wins.
by Phantom on Aug 5, 2008 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't be an ass
hahah
www.wellbelowthemendozaline.blogspot.com
by justdave on Aug 5, 2008 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
not soon enough
www.wellbelowthemendozaline.blogspot.com
by justdave on Aug 5, 2008 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it possible to have a publicity nightmare
when the team is already in the toilet?
by Dalton on Aug 5, 2008 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
good points
this was an great read and made me think about a lot of things. :)
i might be a happy go lucky guy but i'm serious when it comes to my padres! rofl!
by manny619sd on Aug 5, 2008 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree on all counts
1. What relationship? Alderson doesn’t like Khalil and who knows what Khalil likes.
2. The publicity nightmare is Khalil punching a storage chest, breaking his hand and not playing the rest of the season. Fans aren’t going to care if a millionaire doesn’t get another million.
What problems for the team did Peavy cause due to drinking Jaeger? Khalil may not have caused problems in the past but he sure caused a hell of a problem by taking himself out of the game for the rest of the season and devaluing himself.
by jbox on Aug 5, 2008 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just because Alderson
doesn’t like Khalil doesn’t mean he’s not still a businessman. I think Sandy realizes that although Khalil isn’t his ideal shortstop, he’s the best option they’ve got. KT’s comments about them knowing Khalil is a better player than the year he’s had is a reflection of the fact that while the FO may not be enthralled with Khalil, he is a valuable asset to the team.
The publicity nightmare is the team seeming vindictive and money-grubbing. Why aren’t we going after Estes for tripping down the stairs? How do we know he really tripped and he wasn’t just looking for a paycheck?
When you get into the realm of trying to figure out which injuries you are going to prosecute, things start to get dicey. It’s an eminently risky position for the club from a litigious standpoint (if the union brought a grievance, they’d probably win), and the FO already has a negative public perception when it comes to money and players. People think John Moores is cheap. Trying to extract 1.6 million from your typically mild-mannered shortstop is not going to help in this situation. You might argue that the team doesn’t care what their fans think, but I guarantee you the slump in attendance this year has gotten their attention. Otherwise we would have never seen the July Dollar Days promotion (although one could argue that was influenced in part by the deteriorating economy).
I never said that Jake caused problems by drinking Jaeger, just that he’s been photographed drinking Jaeger. He has, however, caused the team heartburn with comments like those he made to Bill Center about his contract situation and those made directly after Linebrink was traded. Khalil, up to this point, has never done or said anything that could make problems for the team.
Khalil’s miserable season already devalued him significantly. It was unlikely that they were going to trade him before he got hurt anyway, as KT noted when he said:
About two weeks ago, the Padres received inquiries from other clubs about Greene’s availability, Towers said, "but we would have had very little leverage. We’d be selling low. For us, we know he’s a better ballplayer. He’s proved over the last couple of years he’s a much better ballplayer on offense" than what he’s shown this season.
If Khalil had bounced back in August and September, they might have tried to trade him in the off-season. Now we’ll never know. However, it is probably more likely that the team would have held onto him until the deadline and flipped him just before his contract ran out. However, this is all pure speculation.
We’re just going to disagree on this, I think. Is there any precedent for team’s recouping salaray after a self-inflicted mid-season injury?
by Phantom on Aug 5, 2008 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Estes tripping = accident
Khalil punching <> accident.
by jbox on Aug 5, 2008 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
self-inflicted hand fracture...
the new auto-erotic asphyxiation?
"When the going gets tough... TheGrandHatching pops in later." -- WG
by TheGrandHatching on Aug 5, 2008 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My entire point
is that if we’re going to start prosecuting these types of things, then where does it end? When do we start getting suspicious of “accidents”? Someone referenced earlier when Adam Eaton lost a battle with a DVD wrapper. How do we know he just didn’t want to pitch for a few weeks?
Obviously I’m exaggerating, but this could be a slipperly slope situation. Again, is there a precedent for a team trying to recoup salary from a player mid-season after a self-inflicted injury? I’m not aware of such a case, but that doesn’t mean it hasn’t occurred.
by Phantom on Aug 5, 2008 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Once we start traveling down this path, you get players lying about injuries. That’s even worse.† They had Khalil on the BP show before the game and Nevin gave him ups for being honest about a stupid mistake.
† – RIGHT MARK PRIOR?
can you cure us of this fate
mock the litany in its face
by Axion on Aug 5, 2008 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nevin gave him ups?
Crap. I do not want to be on Nevin’s side. Have to re-think.
by Winfield's Ghost on Aug 5, 2008 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"but the fact of the mattter is that he’s the best shortstop in franchise history"
Ozzie Smith?
If you can't learn to do something well, learn to enjoy doing it poorly
by Boilermaker19 on Aug 5, 2008 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Smith was pretty bad offensively
while he was with us, and he wasn’t with us all that long. When I said shortstop, I meant all around, not just defense. Obviously, if it was just defense, Smith would beat just about anyone on the planet.
I’d actually say that Tempie was a better SS for the Padres than Smith was. Smith might be third on my list.
To back up my point, Smith was only with the Padres for four years and never had an OPS+ over 82. He didn’t really catch fire until 1984, his third year with the Cardinals. Before this year, Khalil never had an OPS+ lower than 95 (2003 shouldn’t count, due to his only having 65 gamers. But he had an 80 OPS+ that year, so not exactly horrible).
by Phantom on Aug 5, 2008 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if we could get him back
Khalil would could be a good defensive substitution.
by jbox on Aug 5, 2008 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gomey
was only a Padre for four years. His best year was ‘98, when he had a 98 OPS+. Other than that, he was at 77, 69, and 42 (although he only appeared in 33 games in 2000, when he posted the 42).
I’m a huge fan of Gomey’s, but I don’t think he was really ever better than Khalil, Tempie, or Ozzie.
Does anyone know where I can find out who has played the most games at SS for the Padres? That would be an interesting list.
by Phantom on Aug 5, 2008 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i refuse to let time fog my memory
he was NOT good. zero range whatsoever. my friends used to call him “step step flop”
www.wellbelowthemendozaline.blogspot.com
by justdave on Aug 5, 2008 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think it depends on his contract...
I’m presuming a standard clause in most baseball contracts details specifically the nature of the injuries that the club would pay for… but I have no idea what that wording would be…
by pjbno4 on Aug 5, 2008 9:11 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I too
would be interested to know more about this. I thought I remember hearing that the team took out an insurance policy on Jake’s arm when he signed his new deal, so I know that there are some ways that teams can protect themselves. I’m just not sure, like you indicate, what exactly is covered.
by Phantom on Aug 5, 2008 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's an article
mentioning the insurance: http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/padres/20050228-9999-1s28padres.html
Question: Are there any standard provisions in a contract that cover the team here? Do you only get this kind of protection if you opt for insurance?
by Phantom on Aug 5, 2008 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The insurance is a separate coverage
You’d have to look at the collective bargaining agreement that the Players Union and Management joined in the last time they negotiated to know what kind of general coverage there is for the team and generally what kind of injuries would or would not affect whether a player gets paid. In the case of privately negotiated contracts beyond the collective bargaining agreement, that’s really case-by-case.
Jake’s arm would be insured because he’s a pitcher - without his arm, he’s useless, with other injured body parts, he can still have a chance of coming back from injury and pitching. You probably wouldn’t have specific player insurance outside of pitchers - there’s simply too much to cover and too little predictability. How are you supposed to know whether you need to insure the back, the big toe, the pinky finger, or the nose? And beyond that, can you imagine what it would cost to pay for insurance to cover every little eventuality? That’s why this kind of risk is distributed between the player and the team when they negotiate contracts. I’m sure that both parties considered the possibility of injuries – from the regular to the incredible – when they considered the contract.
Capri. Baseball will get me through the Bar Exam.
by Demoira on Aug 7, 2008 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No insurance company in their right mind would insure Khalil's hands.
He’s so brittle and has already had two long stints on the DL because of them before his brain broke and he punched a storage chest.
by jbox on Aug 7, 2008 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm calling for justice
No play no pay! It’s logical, so Khalil will understand.
by jbox on Aug 5, 2008 9:22 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Pay him as scheduled
Send a message to other Free Agents that the Padres won’t try to screw you over.
can you cure us of this fate
mock the litany in its face
by Axion on Aug 5, 2008 11:16 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Players
need a message that they shouldn’t screw the team over. Go after the money!
by jbox on Aug 5, 2008 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is this the argument
where we establish that Khalil spent his entire career waiting for this moment to screw the Padres over?
Because I’m on the bus.
can you cure us of this fate
mock the litany in its face
by Axion on Aug 5, 2008 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
can you cure us of this fate
mock the litany in its face
by Axion on Aug 5, 2008 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok that one takes the cake
best.
pic.
ever.
www.wellbelowthemendozaline.blogspot.com
by justdave on Aug 5, 2008 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really think this is the most important factor
If the Padres ever decided to really jump into the FA market, you don’t want something like that as a red flag for a player. You don’t want an agent to say to his player “Remember. They nickeled and dimed with Greene on the injury thing.” Regardless of how correct they might be in thinking they are owed the money, the long-term damage would linger too long.
by Winfield's Ghost on Aug 5, 2008 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think
that since his frustrations were starting to manifest themselves physically Bud Black, Wally and whoever else should have spoken to him to try and calm him down and get it out in another way letting it out rather than having his frustrations only grow… someone should have seen it coming when he started throwing bats and helmets… if they did talk to him first its another story
they should just make him do a bunch of player apperances and Padres Foundation stuff… because it would be easier than going against the player union, and public attention will probably be more of a punishment for him
I like how your verbs are things. I think I'm going to sandwhich after I sofa here for a bit.
by C8LIN B on Aug 5, 2008 11:30 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The Padres
already use that Khalil card board cut out at every fan event, what’s the difference? Besides the broken hand.
by jbox on Aug 5, 2008 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bud might be a little gun-shy
on intervening with angry players. He’s still wearing Bradley’s ACL around his neck.
If you can't learn to do something well, learn to enjoy doing it poorly
by Boilermaker19 on Aug 5, 2008 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
sort of the way a hunter wears the claws from a fresh kill
by Dex on Aug 5, 2008 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
stupid bud black
www.wellbelowthemendozaline.blogspot.com
by justdave on Aug 5, 2008 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How cheap are the Padres? They might as well take back Giles' salary from the last
5 seasons.
Life always goes on...even if you don't want it to
by TheVinylCrocodile on Aug 5, 2008 2:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think something to consider is that he injured himself in the heat of the game
I know he did it in the clubhouse and his injury wasn’t caused by a broken bat or HBP. Nonetheless, it was still done during the course of the game, caused by frustration directly related to the game. It’s not like he crashed a motorcycle in the offseason.
by 'Eaters on Aug 5, 2008 3:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
life insurance
i said this before- it should be like life insurance.
it doesnt pay if you commit suicide…
kg committed baseball suicide!
by mrshuber on Aug 5, 2008 4:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
bad comparison. committing suicide is the purposeful ending of your own life
Khalil did not injure himself or end his season on purpose. He is too competitive to tank it.
What he did is akin to breaking a bat over his leg and accidentally hurting his leg. The only difference for some is that breaking the bat would be on the field of play, while the clubhouse is not. But it’s all about being in the heat of the game.
by 'Eaters on Aug 6, 2008 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shouldn't even be a question
If you ever want to sign another FA again, then pay his salary. Now if he committed a felony then I would raise a discussion.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. " ~Frank Sinatra
by Sammy G on Aug 5, 2008 10:30 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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