Dodgers get Manny Ramirez. Padres lose Greene and maintain Maddux.

by Dex on Jul 31, 2008 2:12 PM PDT Comment 51 comments

I was really hoping that the Padres would somehow get Manny Ramirez. I knew it wasn't going to happen and I knew that it would make no sense, but I really like that guy. He'd be the kind of guy I'd go to the ballpark to watch play every night. Instead, the Dodgers get Manny and it bums me out. The season was done a long time ago, but it's sad to get that last nail in the coffin.

I was also really hoping that Khalil Greene wouldn't return to his scientific calculator days, but unfortunately, it looks like he has. That's a "busting digits" joke.

I'm glad Maddux is still around, but I know he won't be around for long. What a bummer of a day to be a Padres fan.

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Dark days?

by Winfield's Ghost on Jul 31, 2008 2:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

can you cure us of this fate
mock the litany in its face

by Axion on Jul 31, 2008 2:16 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs

So tell KT to sign him next year

by Dalton on Jul 31, 2008 2:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

don't you see!?

it’s all over!!

I think i would’ve been happier with a proper firesale.

by Dex on Jul 31, 2008 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not a big fan of fire sales....

but this team needs to be blown up and started over. It is nearly impossible to do with no minor league material.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana"
Groucho Marx

by planetjeffy on Jul 31, 2008 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fire Sale

It sounds nice and all, but look at how hard the Pirates had to work to get a couple legit prospects for Bay. Firesale-ing the team would have resulted in minimal returns at best. I love the idea that we could blow up the team and flood the minors with prospects, but it just doesn’t seem like in the current market with some of our guys currently at their “buy low” moments that we could have got enough back to make it worth while.

With the Dodgers slowly torpedoing their future years, the DBags not able to turn their talent into a 90+ win team, the Rockies running out of time with Holliday and Helton, and the Giants wounded from the Zito contract and the Barroid years, I think the current plan is the best one. Try hard to get some talent for your guys that won’t be here next year, see if you can cobble together a team next year that has the potential to get lucky in the NL West, and wait until the drafted players start paying off in 2010 and beyond.

The offense the team currently has is not as bad as the one it had in April and really the one in April was as unlucky as it was bad. The pitching for next year worries me both the 3-5 rotations spots and the non-Heath Bell bullpen spots. And obviously we need to make sure we have a legit plan for CF and 2B next year.

I don't have to always be right. I just have to always think I'm right.

by Wonko on Jul 31, 2008 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think we have ou CF and 2B

How could you not start EGON at 2B next year. Dude is hittin .300. I like Gerut too. Actually I really like the portland club we have this year, just need to get some bullpen guys, have trevor retire, perhaps try and move Giles somewhere. I think this is a good line up, given a decent bullpen and people healthy not punching storage lockers. Perhaps M. Bradley put a freak injury curse on the Pads this season.

by jtothepizzle77 on Jul 31, 2008 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Somebody else may want those guys

How much do you think the Padres will pony up to keep them? The Portland club has no real pitching to speak of. LeBlanc needs work and he’s pretty much the only guy there with real potential. Moving Giles means you will have someone worse in RF, guaranteed. Giles is a must have for a competitive 2009 team. The problem is that there are additional pieces needed to make it happen.

I don't have to always be right. I just have to always think I'm right.

by Wonko on Jul 31, 2008 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think that

EGON or Gerut would cost that much. I like Giles but he is 37 and is pretty much guaranteed to have some injuries every year, and if the Padres can’t put up the $$$ for guys like Egon and Gerut, then they can’t put a competitive team together in 2009. Who would they get for less? We could sell off Gerut and Egon but the players we get for the may cost more in the long run and perform less. Exit Loretta enter Barfield, Giles, Iguchi. Iguchi is someone we should really try to move. The only real difference between the team we have right now, and the one we had last year is health, and bullpen. The 07 pads hit about as well, maybe worse, but had a rock solid bullpen, and a healthy rotation. I think the guys they build the team around are the Egons, Geruts, Headleys, Kouz, Peavys, etc.. Go with youth. It will cost less, and be more fun to watch then the Front Office fucking up deals like Fukudome.

by jtothepizzle77 on Jul 31, 2008 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You do understand

That it’s not a matter of “selling off” Gerut or EGon. They can leave for greener pastures after the season is over. Giles is pretty cheap for his productivity and the team controls his option. Remember that Jose Guillen makes $11 mill a year and is about as good as Giles. You can’t build around older players who haven’t shown signs of stardom like Gerut and EGon. You can use them as patch jobs like we did this season, but you can see where that got us. I like the production we’ve gotten from the two of them, but if EGon or Gerut want a 3 year deal or more, I just don’t think it’s prudent for the Padres to offer that. Unfortunately, as much as we enjoyed watching the two play this year, they are most likely having career years and the Padres aren’t in the position to pay guys over 30 based on their best year’s production.

I don't have to always be right. I just have to always think I'm right.

by Wonko on Jul 31, 2008 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Giles is cheap for his productivity

but he is also 37. So the paying players over 30 for career years argument doesn’t fit here. Giles stands to make significantly more than EGon or Gerut, even if those two decide to test the open market. While those guys are free to go, I wonder if we don’t sign them, who are we going to get instead. I would rather put money into those two guys, who are not young, but at 30, still have plenty of good playing years left, than say an iguchi or Edmonds type who has had some good years, but is not producing what they should based on what they can earn. In my opinion, we could get more out of Egon and Gerut than we could letting them go, and having to sign other players to fill there spots. The Padres don’t have any money. They’ll have even less after Moore’s divorce goes through. I think we have an economically productive team right now, and think that we should try to sign some of these guys long term if we can get a good price. Gerut to me is better than Cameron, and Egon is the best 2B men we have had since Loretta. To me these guys are not patch jobs, but guys we should have gone with since the start of the season.

by jtothepizzle77 on Aug 1, 2008 12:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Giles is different

It would be a 1 year commitment. Edmonds was also a 1 year commitment, which makes it easy to deal with next year (in the sense that you don’t have to). What happens if you sign Gerut or EGon to a long term contract and it turns out that they will never be as good as they were in 2008? If Giles gets hurt, then you try to find a replacement in 2010. It’s that easy. The idea that the Moore’s divorce affects the payroll is kind of silly. The reason the Padres don’t have money is that Moores doesn’t spend money out of his own pocket. I do agree that at this point, Gerut’s defense is probably better than Cameron and he is a better leadoff hitter for sure. If Gerut and Gonzalez want to come back for 1 year deals, I’m fine with that, but committing long term to one or both of them is much riskier than committing to Giles or Edmonds or Iguchi or Wolf or Maddux for a single year. The best players to commit to long term deals are the ones you developed yourself so you know everything about them skill-wise, potential-wise and health-wise.

I don't have to always be right. I just have to always think I'm right.

by Wonko on Aug 1, 2008 12:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think

we could get an Egon to a one or two year deal. I think it would be cheaper than an Iguchi as well. Egon has always been a hitter at every level he has played. For whatever reason he has not got his opportunity. We had a commitment to Edmonds and Iguchi. Where did that get us? In debt. I think Gerut is better all around over Cameron. Speedier, much better hitter, platoonable with Hairston. I think there has been so much emphasis on firesale/re-building the team etc, after this dissapointing season, however I see next years club in this years replacements. Headley should have made the club out of camp, but the Pads already committed a lot of money to Edmonds, so they stuck him in the minors to save some cash. They signed Iguchi to spell a Giles which really did not work out. Gerut ended up taking over for Edmonds when we had to release him, and that has worked well for us. Kouz, A.gon, Kahlil, Peavy, CY. Those are our vets, and they are still fairly young. I see youth as the future of the club, and would rather see the Pads build around the everyday guys they have right now, than see them sell those guys off for more established players, only to wish they had them back in 2009 when the guys they sign don’t pan out

by jtothepizzle77 on Aug 1, 2008 1:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Edmonds and Iguchi did not get the Padres in debt

The Padres payroll is exactly what it was expected to be. And do you really believe EGon and Gerut won’t try to turn their career years into long term deals? If so, you are selling them short. I also think you are pushing the Cameron/Gerut comparison a little too far. Of course you are probably comparing the current older, unavailable version of Cameron to the younger Gerut, which would make you correct, but Cameron’s 2006 season with the Padres is a better season than Gerut will ever achieve (and that’s not even Cameron’s best season). You Geyity is kind of funny because Gerut in 2008 was the type of low risk, injury prone, older player 1 year commitment signing that you are railing against (except.he wasn’t expensive). You are correct in saying that we should build around Kouz, AGon, Peavy, and CY (not to mention Headley, Bell, Hensley, and probably Banks), but you should not so easily dismiss the value Giles brings at a reasonable price, especially considering how hard he would be to replace in one offseason. Khalil, however, is as good as gone after 09. They gave him his walking papers by signing him to a 2 year deal in the last offseason.

I don't have to always be right. I just have to always think I'm right.

by Wonko on Aug 1, 2008 1:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey guy, get a room

there are plenty of cheap ones downtown, since nobody goes there anymore

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana"
Groucho Marx

by planetjeffy on Aug 1, 2008 1:32 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

"guys"

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana"
Groucho Marx

by planetjeffy on Aug 1, 2008 1:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

with the Giles argument. I like Giles. I just think that he has a limited # of years left in him. Gerut was an injury risk signing, however, he was 29 at the time, coming right into prime. I liked Cameron too, however his best years were behind him, and we never got a great hitter or really great speed out of him. We got great defense, a .260 hitter with occasional pop. Not worth what he could get on the open market in the 2007 offseason which was short on outfield prospects/free agents, inflating his and Bradley’s value. Gerut came at a bargain. His career year was also his rookie year in Cleveland were he hit 22 HRs, 2003. I don’t doubt both he and EGON are worth some $$, I just think the Pads could get these guys to sign cheaper deals. Egon would certainly want a deal to keep him in SD. Maybe not a 1 yr, but a 3-4 with some performance incentives, so he can play in his hometown next to his bro. I think it comes down to, who are we going to be able to sign for less vs. there potential level of production. Neither is going to be a superstar, but both are solid productive players on a team with a couple of superstars. As for Kahlil we’ll miss him dearly unless we get a Tejada type player. Giles to me has less value than EGon. We have Hairston, Headley, Gerut, and Ambres.

by jtothepizzle77 on Aug 1, 2008 1:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gerut was 29 at the time coming out of his prime

Hitters primes are between the ages of 24-28. Giles and EGon are not a matter of either-or. You can have both if EGon will go for a SD discount. I’m just saying that by not bringing back Giles, you are almost guaranteed a downgrade at RF for 2009, since this year he is the 10th best hitting RF in the majors and none of his betters are free agents. EGon on the other hand is a mostly unproven 23rd best hitting 2B, with multiple players of his caliber as free agents next year. Not to mention the minor leaguers that haven’t gotten a chance just like him. He is almost the definition of free talent. Sentimentality aside, he is replaceable part, bot a key cog. Jody Gerut is the 14th best CF and none of his betters are free agents. It would probably be in the Padres best interests to try their best to bring him back. But since he is moving into his over 30 years anything more than a 1 to 2 year deal would be reckless and if I was his agent I’d be searching for a sucker with a 3-4 year deal. Trying to build a team around non-elite over 30 year olds is a hazardous strategy and has killed teams like the early 00s Pirates (Kevin Young, John VanDerWal, Pat Meares, Wil Cordero) orthe late 00s Royals (Grudzielnek, Sanders, Mientkiewicz). Small market teams win by paying elite players or players with elite potential. The harm themselves by paying for middle of the pack over 30-year-olds like EGon and Gerut. We need that money to build around the other players you mention (CY, Peavy, AGon, Headley, maybe Kouz or possibly Khalil when he’s a free agent after 09).

I don't have to always be right. I just have to always think I'm right.

by Wonko on Aug 1, 2008 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I tend to disagree

about hitters prime years. Most hit their prime in their late 20’s early 30’s, say 27-33. Look at guy like Manny Ramirez, Chipper Jones, Miguel Tejada, Johnny Damon, David Ortiz. If guys hit their primes between 24-28, then we would see a lot more guys hitting the bigs by age 21 or so, and a lot less guys getting big deals in their 30’s. I agree wih you that the guys we build around are Kouz, Peavy, Agon, CY, Headley, Kahalil. We are actually lucky that we have some “vets” who are still pretty young. It gives us an opportunity to have a team that will be a contender for the next 3-4 years possibly. I also agree that Egon and Gerut are not superstar players who are not replaceable. I just think that if they are that replaceable to begin with, then they are really not going to command a ton on the open market. If there are really a lot of 2Bs and OFs out there, as you mention, then neither of these guys is going to command a huge 3-4 year deal. We don’t build around those guys, but they are very capable players we should look to keep. Look at it this way, if we sign them to a 1yr deal, and they both have career years next year, and we don’t get to the post-season, then they will really cost $$$, and we won’t get to keep them. We might as well lock them up for a couple of years, maybe incentive laced deals while we can. Mike Cameron cost us 14mil for 2 seasons when he was 33, 34. We could probably get both of these guys for less than that.

by jtothepizzle77 on Aug 1, 2008 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Those are not most hitters

Those are elite hitters, they tend to hand a very very slow decline phase. Most hitters are in their peak hitting years from ages 24-28. That’s not my opinion. That’s a researched principle of baseball hitters. Your age 21 argument assumes that hitters have a smooth curve where their decline is the same slope as their incline, when it has been shown that most hitters have a steep decline and a slow decline. The exception being players who rely on speed that tend to peak early and decline very fast as their speed goes. Elite hitters usually have a combination of skills and can use those to cushion their decline and thus still have very good years from ages 28-32. You can argue this, but you aren’t arguing with me, you are arguing with over 100 years of baseball statistics and almost 30 years of baseball research. Your hopes for the Gerut and EGon contracts are very nice, let’s hope you are right, but I think the baseball economics will play out differently. I think Gerut might be able to find someone who’ll give him 3 years 12 mill and I don’t want that to be the Padres especially with Gerut’s knee history. EGon as you astutely pointed out earlier might except a SD-friendly deal, but I wouldn’t go much higher than 2 years 5 mill and I’d be exploring what contracts Hudson and Mark Ellis want or possibly doing something crazy like signing a SS and moving Khalil to 2B.

I don't have to always be right. I just have to always think I'm right.

by Wonko on Aug 1, 2008 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

*Correction

when it has been shown that most hitters have a steep decline and a slow decline.

should have been

when it has been shown that most hitters have a steep incline and a slow decline.

I don't have to always be right. I just have to always think I'm right.

by Wonko on Aug 1, 2008 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Moving Khalil to 2B?

If Khalil isn’t gone after this year he’ll probably be gone after 09’. The main reason for keeping Kahlil is top notch D at short. Why move him to 2B? Egon would be a better hitting cheaper 2B. To the hitters prime theory, here is an interesting quote from an interesting article “

Suffice to say, from the chart above, it’s clear a player’s prime runs about six or seven years, from ages 26 through 32.”

here is a link:

http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/baseball/flb/story?page=age27myth

I think stats show most pretty good players peak between 26-7 to 32-3. Look at a guy like Steve Finley, Mark Grace.
If Gerut finds someone willing to give him 12 mil for 3, all the more power to him. Jody has never made over a mil a seaon. His “career” year this year is hitting .288 with 7 hrs. His rookie season he hit .279 with 22 hrs. That is not to say he is not a good player, with some good value to the Padres.

by jtothepizzle77 on Aug 2, 2008 1:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sigh

You just don’t read. I give up. It was fun until you just started ignoring stuff.

I don't have to always be right. I just have to always think I'm right.

by Wonko on Aug 2, 2008 3:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Perhaps

I just have a soft spot in my heart for the 30 year olds, being that age myself. Still would like those two around for 09’, and 10’

by jtothepizzle77 on Aug 2, 2008 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

well

that’ll do it

www.wellbelowthemendozaline.blogspot.com

by justdave on Jul 31, 2008 2:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't know about anyone else

but I’m very excited to see Jake and CY pitch to Manny. Should make some fun games.

by maestro876 on Jul 31, 2008 2:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Wouldn’t like him in the division over the long term, but we’ve got what, 9 games against the Dodgers in September? We get a superstar in the NL West, and get a chance to totally devastate his team’s playoff chances late in the year.

by Dalton on Jul 31, 2008 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Whatever. We were done this season anyways

and the Dodgers are only renting Manny and lost some prospects in the process. He’ll go DH somewhere next year.

I would’ve like to see Bay in a Padre uniform, though.

by 'Eaters on Jul 31, 2008 2:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

You can see Jason Bay in a Padre uniform

But the pictures are from 2003

by strummer on Jul 31, 2008 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Padres

Do not have anyone of Andy LaRoche’s caliber in the minors and trading from the major league team is like robbing peter to pay paul.

I don't have to always be right. I just have to always think I'm right.

by Wonko on Jul 31, 2008 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

This season is just comical

And I really feel like the worst has not come yet.

by sacpadre on Jul 31, 2008 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jake Peavy

Eaten by bears.

by Dalton on Jul 31, 2008 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL!

by strummer on Jul 31, 2008 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I cant picture it getting much worse

unless there was a violent clubhouse rumble of some sort

by strummer on Jul 31, 2008 3:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Any time you cant picture it being worse

Think of when we lost Milton and Cameron in the same game.

by 'Eaters on Jul 31, 2008 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bard and CY

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. " ~Frank Sinatra

by Sammy G on Jul 31, 2008 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good point, but the season wasn't on the line then

When we lost Milton and Cameron we were in the middle of a pennant race

by 'Eaters on Jul 31, 2008 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i was on the road for work, so it was a little hectic at the time

but i remember being completely broken as a man that day. just a shattered shattered human being

www.wellbelowthemendozaline.blogspot.com

by justdave on Jul 31, 2008 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't forget

The Chargers lost to a close one to Green Bay shortly before the Padres game started.

I don't have to always be right. I just have to always think I'm right.

by Wonko on Jul 31, 2008 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

31-24 at Green Bay

Chargers had the lead in the 3rd quarter before GB scored two TDs in the 4th quarter.
I didnt watch the Padres after that one.

by strummer on Jul 31, 2008 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I watched the Chargers from across the street of Petco

And then attended the Cameron-Bradley debacle in person. A momentous day in my sad little life. I can’t remember the name of the bar I was at though. It was one of the one’s that they had the guest bar tending thing at.

I don't have to always be right. I just have to always think I'm right.

by Wonko on Jul 31, 2008 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh wow

you were actually at that game.
That would have been too much misery for me to handle in one day.

by strummer on Jul 31, 2008 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I loved Bradley

That guy brought some intensity to the Pads like I’ve never seen. Dude was made of glass though, and the Padres almost got to the playoffs without him. He only played 40 games for us in 07. That seemed like the beginning of the end though. After he stepped on Cameron’s hand, he got taken out by Buddy, then Hell’s Bell’s blows to crucial saves, one to T. Gywnn Jr., then the Pads dismantle the bullpen, then they fail to outbid the cubs on Fukudome, by 500k a season, but blow 4 mill on Edmonds who went to the Cubs for the league min., then Peavy out, CY out, Bard out, Estes out. Now Greene shows emotion for the first time in his robotic career, and ends his season. It has been a sad 8-9 months for Padres fans!

by jtothepizzle77 on Jul 31, 2008 9:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

How many times do I have to hear

The “But I love him” from the beat up ex-girlfriend? People need to get over Bradley and his injury-plagued, chip-on-the-shoulder, malcontented stint with the Padres. Let the guy go. Find a nicer boy to settle down with.

I don't have to always be right. I just have to always think I'm right.

by Wonko on Jul 31, 2008 11:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bradley = Manny without the attitude

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana"
Groucho Marx

by planetjeffy on Aug 1, 2008 1:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bradley had plenty

of attitude. I liked his style but people forget he only played 1/4 of the season for us. He was 29 and had a career full injuries. Do you really think past 30 his injuries are going to improve. He was too much drama for SD. Plus I think we have got more production out of Headly, Hairston, Gerut. Bradley’s biggest contribution was his attitude. SD was not used to that kind of intensity, and I think it was good for the team to see that.

by jtothepizzle77 on Aug 1, 2008 1:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

actually I meant the opposite - Manny = Bradley w/o the attitude

trying to be funny at 1am usually fails, like our bullpen. You know the biggest deals of this trade deadline involved X Nady and J Bay – where the f-ck is ownership and managment? We should be in this discussion.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana"
Groucho Marx

by planetjeffy on Aug 1, 2008 2:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs