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Gaslamp Ball Debate Club: Should there be instant replay in baseball?

I was going to throw it out there that we could debate whether or not baseball should finally sack up and implement instant replay, but I found a Jayson Stark chat where he debated the same thing and now I'm even more convinced that there should be replay, so I'm hardly going to be a neutral party. At the same time, I can play devil's advocate as well as anybody, and I don't have much to say right now regarding the Padres so I'll open it up.

Should there be instant replay in baseball?  If you think no, explain yourself! If you think yes, give a reasonable suggestion for how it would be implemented.

GO INSTANT REPLAY!!!

Poll
Should there be instant replay in baseball?
No
44 votes
Yes
84 votes

128 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 46 comments

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Comments

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The Umpires are all a bunch of A-holes

Let’s put in cameras and use instant replay for every single play. Eliminate the human factor all together. Strikes, Force Outs, Foul balls, everything!

The umpires are a bunch of scat munchers and are about as objective as a Clinton campaign spokesman. Eliminate them!!

by TheRevRun on May 5, 2008 7:14 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Personally, I'd love robot umpires

“C’mon, blue! What the f_ck are you thinking!?”

“Fun fact: Deep Blue contributed significantly to my neural network. Currently, I am analyzing this argument to determine if you should be ejected from the game.”

“I mean, seriously, do you need f_cking glasses?”

“No. My optic sensors are state of the art and are tied directly to the sensors and monitors throughout the stadium. I do not require any other assistance.”

“You’re a pile of sh_t, blue.”

“That is your third expletive of the conversation. I must now eject you. YERRRR OUTTA HEEERE!!!”

by Dex on May 5, 2008 7:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

:)

The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

by Axion on May 5, 2008 7:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Another plus for robot umpires

Is that K-Bot would get a virtual free pass

A bat, a bat, my kingdom for a bat! - Jake Peavy (loosely translated)

by Boilermaker19 on May 5, 2008 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm for it.

Can one really argue against it? Umpires are largely unpopular. I’m sure we all have our one to three that we like, but there’s twice as many that we curse by name.

The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

by Axion on May 5, 2008 7:27 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm for it

Dex’s summary in the OT on Saturday was pretty much what I’d do – two challenges a game and the managers can challenge calls on the basepaths, foul/fair balls and homeruns – basically the stuff that, you know, they get wrong now. I wouldn’t allow challenges to balls and strikes because I think that would completely screw up the strike zone, as umpires would be worried about being shown up there and the zone would constantly be in flux, making it brutal for both pitchers and hitters. (I don’t think they have as much issue with being reversed on a call in the field – I think they can live with that because on occasion we see it happen.)

I would also never allow Jim Edmonds to play again.

by Winfield's Ghost on May 5, 2008 7:49 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

WG

I’m not sure exactly what never allowing Jim Edmonds to play again has to do with instant replay in baseball….but I am 100% in favor.

by Drama on May 5, 2008 7:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Truth

“After review, the ruling on the field stands… Jim Edmonds is slow as hell and needs to retire.”

We've all experienced those delirious moments where one thing leads to another and you find yourself at the end of the night messing around with sheep. It's something we all have in common. -jbox

by JBRO on May 5, 2008 8:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

Things that should be reviewable…

1. Fair/foul
2. Home runs
3. Baserunning out/safe
4. Catches
5. Runner tagging up/leaving early

If replay is to be implemented, i think baseball would have to add a fifth umpire to each crew and make the “odd man out” for each game a replay official in the stands. Not like the NFL does it (where there is a replay official who is just a replay official and who has no field experience, if memory serves). This would make the whole replay process faster as well as making sure that the person behind the replay booth is a qualified umpire with field experience.

We've all experienced those delirious moments where one thing leads to another and you find yourself at the end of the night messing around with sheep. It's something we all have in common. -jbox

by JBRO on May 5, 2008 8:19 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Oh, and I forgot…. managers have the power to ask for a review, and only get two uses per game.

We've all experienced those delirious moments where one thing leads to another and you find yourself at the end of the night messing around with sheep. It's something we all have in common. -jbox

by JBRO on May 5, 2008 8:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Chip the ball

And laser the entire ballpark. You can make a perfect strike zone for every hitter with enough lines.

The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

by Axion on May 5, 2008 8:39 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Because apparently so-called 20/20 vision

Is failing enough for us to unanimously vote it down.

The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

by Axion on May 5, 2008 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

(scratch the unanimous)

The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

by Axion on May 5, 2008 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I voted no because

I like to keep it old-school. If I could have it my way, there would only be organ music, the scoreboard would be the type where a dude has to sit inside and hang up the numbers, and people drinking wine and/or talking on cell phones during the game would be sniped with a stun-gun from the upper deck.

Ok maybe not that last part…but I guess I just like the human-error factor of the game.

by wait till next year on May 5, 2008 9:29 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

What I don't get about this viewpoint..

is that through replay, humans are still making the final decisions on calls. It’s not like someone queues up the play on the replay machine, presses a few buttons, pulls a few levers, and a computer-generated verdict of “OUT” appears. A replay window would just give umpires another look at the play in question; it would not take the umpire’s ability to judge out of the equation, it would enhance it.

All this being said- I am quite tradition-minded when it comes to baseball (hate the DH, think “Field-Turf” should be left on football fields, enjoy the sacrifice bunt, am iffy about at-bat music, etc) so this is kind of backwards for me. However, I think that it is stupid to let human error on the part of an umpire, however random or occasional or infrequent, to decide ballgames and affect the efforts of the ballplayers.

And… Matt Holliday. I still don’t want to talk about it. That was pretty much the straw that broke the camel’s back for me.

We've all experienced those delirious moments where one thing leads to another and you find yourself at the end of the night messing around with sheep. It's something we all have in common. -jbox

by JBRO on May 5, 2008 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Human ERROR not Human made calls

"I won't be happy until we have every boy in America between the ages of six and sixteen wearing a glove and swinging a bat."- Babe Ruth

by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on May 5, 2008 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But I agree with your stun-gun sniper to take out people that don't pay attention to the games.

Wholeheartedly.

We've all experienced those delirious moments where one thing leads to another and you find yourself at the end of the night messing around with sheep. It's something we all have in common. -jbox

by JBRO on May 5, 2008 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just like to keep the game simple.

We’re surrounded by our iphones and blackberries and internetz and digital cameras etc… like 24/7. When I watch a game, the last thing I need is another commercial break while the umps to a video review of a call. To me it would interrupt the natural ebb and flow of the game.

Instant replay would make baseball more fair, but to me it just wouldn’t make it better. It’s more of a feeling and nostalgia for what used to be than anything based if fact so it’s kind of hard to explain, but I think you guys understand.

by wait till next year on May 5, 2008 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Natural ebb and flow.

My counter-argument to that is managers coming onto the field to argue catch/no catch, fair/foul, ball/strike. The call is almost never reversed, right or wrong, and we don’t get to hear what’s said. We just kind of accept it as a formality despite the fact that it’s up to 5 minutes of nothing happening for nothing’s sake. If the umpire made the wrong call, chances are, his recall of the incident is going to be worse.

I would miss watching the escalating muted arguments, though. Always fun to insert your own dialogue.

The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

by Axion on May 5, 2008 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree 100%

To me, instant replay disrupts the flow of the game as much as a coach coming out to the mound to stall for time and give a guy in the bully more time to warm up, or a coach coming out to argue something minor like balls and strikes.

And wait till next year….if it would make the game more fair, then wouldn’t the game be inherently better? I absolutely know what you mean when you talk about nostalgia for the game, but in a game involving the Padres, i would have no problem with my feelings of nostalgia always taking a backseat to the umpires getting the calls correct. Let the guys that are getting paid to play decide the outcome of the game- not the people that are supposed to do nothing more than mediate the game.

We've all experienced those delirious moments where one thing leads to another and you find yourself at the end of the night messing around with sheep. It's something we all have in common. -jbox

by JBRO on May 5, 2008 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

At the end of the day, though..

i will have my opinions and you will have yours. And that’s cool.

We've all experienced those delirious moments where one thing leads to another and you find yourself at the end of the night messing around with sheep. It's something we all have in common. -jbox

by JBRO on May 5, 2008 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is the best argument I think for not using instant replay

With instant replay, the heated arguments where a manager gets kicked out becomes a thing of the past. At the same time, they might still happen out of force of habit, and just as a manager’s being thrown out, he would realize that he has a challenge and be like, “F you then, dude! It’s going to the booth!”

by Dex on May 5, 2008 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If the manager comes out of the dugout

for anything other than a pitching change it burns his instant replay challenge.

by jbox on May 5, 2008 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Reminds me of my recent trip to Arizona.

On the Wednesday day game, they had a promotion going called “D-Bingo.” They pass out bingo cards at the gate with random arrays of offensive and defensive plays on a grid, and the fans are supposed to fill ‘em out. The first twenty to people win and shuffle over to the main store got their bag grabbed by a Dbag or something to that effect. I thought it was a cool idea, because old people love bingo, and it gets people into the game. Or so I thought.

Needless to say, I ended up with the cards from all my “neighbors.” Totaling 7. These people couldn’t pay attention and didn’t know how to score a play anyway.

The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

by Axion on May 5, 2008 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Little known fact

Bingo is the official state sport of Arizona.

We've all experienced those delirious moments where one thing leads to another and you find yourself at the end of the night messing around with sheep. It's something we all have in common. -jbox

by JBRO on May 5, 2008 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nos have overtaken

Yes there is one post supporting No.

Who’s proxying? lol

The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

by Axion on May 5, 2008 9:37 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

i wish they'd comment

I promise nobody will yell at you. Who else is voting no?

by Dex on May 5, 2008 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah.

I’m genuinely interested in the No’s because it seems obvious yes to me.

The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

by Axion on May 5, 2008 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You seem to be suggesting

That the umpires are responsible for the Padres poor record.
I guess we have blown thru the Petco excuse, China trip excuse, Its only April etc etc.
We are left with blaming the umps.

by strummer on May 5, 2008 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

How is that statement that he just made

in any way indicative that he is blaming the Padres’ recent woes on umpires?

We've all experienced those delirious moments where one thing leads to another and you find yourself at the end of the night messing around with sheep. It's something we all have in common. -jbox

by JBRO on May 5, 2008 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't recall typing the word Padres in this thread until just now.

The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

by Axion on May 5, 2008 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

All the cool kids do it!

I took on like 30 people in the sac bunt thread and only had one ally who showed up to the party three days late. ha

We've all experienced those delirious moments where one thing leads to another and you find yourself at the end of the night messing around with sheep. It's something we all have in common. -jbox

by JBRO on May 5, 2008 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i vote no

Because in my mind you either have instant replay for every call or you don’t have it at all. I don’t like the idea that a manager could use his two challenges in the fifth inning and get them right, but then he can’t challenge a game-altering call in the ninth. I kinda feel the same way about football. I don’t really think anyone wants instant replay for every single call, so I have to vote no.

I also agree with the whole old-school, disrupt the ebb of the game argument. I can’t really come up with legitimate reasons for this, but I definitely feel that replay would be so foreign to baseball and it wouldn’t fit. It would be like if we signed Barry Bonds; sure, it’d probably work, but who would like it?

by FriarBryan on May 5, 2008 10:31 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Football

has a system where coaches get a limited amount of challenges (2) and then all borderline calls within the last two minutes of each half are reviewable by the officials.

In this case- each manager gets 2 challenges per game and all plays in the 9th inning onward are reviewable?

We've all experienced those delirious moments where one thing leads to another and you find yourself at the end of the night messing around with sheep. It's something we all have in common. -jbox

by JBRO on May 5, 2008 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

College Football

Replays are handled differently in college football. Each play is reviewed by a replay official, and he lets the officials on the field know if they’re going to stop the clock for a replay.

They also give the coaches one challenge that they can use to force a review one time per game.

In CFB, if you lose your challenge, you get dinged a time out, as well. Makes sense, as otherwise it’d be a free timeout. Not sure whether you’d need a corresponding punitive measure in MLB, as there’s much less of an advantage to clock stopping, and there are plenty of other ways to slow things down (see, e.g., Traschel, Steve).

Seems like that’s the way to go. Automatic review of every play, and give the coaches something to do to signal a review once per game (and you get another if it goes into extra innings).

My only worry would be that people would intentionally slow things down to force a replay. Maybe they could have a green light up in the booth that turns on when the replay official decides that they play is going to stand as called.

by Boy Howdy on May 5, 2008 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

slowing things down for a replay

that’s when the manager comes out and argues the call for like 3 minutes before throwing the red flag. so you get the replay, but you don’t miss out on the spectacular arguments. everybody wins!

by Dex on May 5, 2008 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

As an Ohio State man

I am familiar with that system (which I believe is peculiar to the Big Ten?). I think with baseball, however, a limitless replay system would suck up a lot of time, far more than in football.

We've all experienced those delirious moments where one thing leads to another and you find yourself at the end of the night messing around with sheep. It's something we all have in common. -jbox

by JBRO on May 5, 2008 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know

How many plays are close enough that they even warrant a second look? I don’t think there’d be more than a handful per game, and a lot of those can be resolved with a single slow-motion replay.

(Yes, CFB has replay on a conference by conference basis. I believe the Big Televen was the first to implement instant replay, but it wasn’t exactly that system above when it started out. I think that system is probably the best system they’ve got going, and has evolved out of a couple iterations from different conferences, and might be the majority system at this point.)

by Boy Howdy on May 5, 2008 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm still a no

but mostly coz that’s the rule to date and I can’t see refutable reasons to challenge it so far…

I mean I see some advantages but not enough to warrant changing things.
And whats fair? Sometimes the bad calls go our way, sometimes not. If we want it to be fair should we find a way to end the game in a tie?! If the umps have to be perfect why not the players, let them all be robots or, I know, let them all take steriods to improve their game.
I like to see the redundant arguments/fights too but I think you can really manipulate the game further, (allowing much more time for pitchers to warm up, getting opposition pitchers out of their groove) by requesting replay.

I just don’t see how it improves the game, just makes it different.
...plus I’m old, and don’t like/adapt to change! ;)

"We've... we've got lumps of it 'round the back."

by ABY on May 5, 2008 4:11 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Voted No

I’m going to attempt to be the voice of reason here, and at the same time, contrast why baseball replay would be very different than football replay.

Since the yes votes seem to almost unanimously agree that only certain plays should be reviewable, I’ll start with my biggest complaint about the NFL. Why aren’t all plays reviewable? A great example of this in the NFL is a force-out on a catch. No one particular play, by virtue of the type of call, has necessarily more or less impact on a game, so why do different rules apply to reviewing such plays? Since that line of reasoning would require that all plays be reviewable, I think we can agree that it would be a disaster for the game.

To address the specific types of plays argued as being reviewable, I’ll point to the distinction between football and baseball. In football, there is a whistle that stops play and kills the ball. In baseball, the ball is only dead when it goes out of play (not 100% true, but accurate for the most part). To use an easy example, the fair/foul call. If the ump makes the incorrect call that the ball is foul, play stops. How can we project what would have transpired had the call been correct (this applies to runner safe/out and catch/no catch as well)? No solution results in the correct outcome, so why introduce the variance? Over the course of a season(s) these errors will tend to balance, which leads me to the next difference between baseball and football – the length of the season.

In football, they play 16 games, which makes every play significantly more valuable than in baseball. As a result, each reviewed play is more important. Baseball plays 10 times more games and has about 40-60% of the number of plays per game, which means that each football play is about 4-6 times more important to the outcome of a season than an individual baseball play. Quite simply, the utter irrelevance (on a grand scale) of an individual play in baseball speaks volumes against the necessity of replay.

The only individual replay call I cannot argue rationally against is whether a ball is a home run or not. High-importance, relatively easy determination (though the Colorado game last year scoffs at my contention), easy for a umpire to get wrong based on distance from the play – plus the outcome is easily determined. The ball is live if a HR is miscalled, so the play continues as though it were a normal play. If miscalled as a HR, it is 99% likely to be a ground rule double, so the outcome can be resolved (if not a ground rule double, that can be written into the rulebook, without a substantial impact).

In closing, I am not some “old” person who wants to preserve tradition or a purist, but I just don’t think that replay is appropriate for baseball – most importantly because of the uncertainty of outcomes when a call is reversed.

by CM Strapz on May 5, 2008 4:22 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Those are really good points

Though I’ll still offer a counter argument for each…

First: I’d say go ahead and make every call arguable. Thinking about it more, if a manager is limited to 2 challenges a game and decides to use those on balls and strikes, then I see two things happening… 1. They better be REAL positive that they can tell the strikezone better than the homeplate umpire from the dugout and 2. If all they ever challenge are the balls and strikes, umpires will get real sick of those particular managers real fast and the strike zone will mysteriously shrink to nothing for that managers’ pitchers. Therefore, since there’s a limit to 2 challenges and nobody wants to piss off an umpire, I can see them only being used on plays that I’m almost positive the umpires would appreciate the help on.

In regards to stopping play, if somebody challenged that a foul ball was actually fair and it turns out the ball really was fair, then award the base based on where the other umpires believed the batter to have made it. I see challenging fair and foul primarily in the cases of homeruns as they pass the foul line pole on the fly anyway. There are plenty of unintended stoppages of play that are quickly resolved by just awarding a base on best guess like ground rule doubles and fan interference.

I think it’s the exact irrelevance of most of the “challengeable” plays combined with the fact that the umpires still have HUGE say in the outcome of the games that would actually prevent most managers from using up both challenges in games. As you say, in football each game is much more meaningful to the outcome of the season, but that doesn’t prevent the nfl from basically allowing the refs to spot the ball on every down basically where they thing it kinda mighta been. I see the same thing in baseball. Most games just go unchallenged, because in the grand scheme of things those individual plays won’t matter enough to make it worth the effort.

by Dex on May 5, 2008 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

On the fence

I kind of like one of the suggestions in the Jayson Stark debate, about implementing an omniscient ump somewhere in a booth watching replays. Instead of the field umps getting together to confer a call, omniscient ump comes over the PA and in a slightly creepy voice ala Vincent Price, announces the right call, like “I decree fair ball, homerun, Adrian Gonzalez…mwahahahaah.”

Errors are going to be made, some more costly than others (as we all know) but the game, like life will never be perfect. I just want it to be fair.

by lab_mouse on May 6, 2008 5:28 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

this sounds very familiar

to the last time we talked about this topic. I had forgotten we had talked about it until I read your comment. I should probably just go over the last 3 years worth of material and rehash it. Reduce, Reuse, Recycle.

by Dex on May 6, 2008 7:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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