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Padres expect to lose

Untitled_tiny by jbox on

I'm glad someone from the Padres organization is speaking about the frustration directly.  I don't want to hear about how the team is grinding or they are in a slump or going through a rough patch.  This team is absolutely horrible.

GM Towers: Padres too comfortable with losing

"It's the way you play the game," said Towers, visibly angry. "It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the intensity and how you carry yourself. We've got some hungry players down below looking for an opportunity. There's not one player in the system who is going to turn it around. If we make changes, it will be wholesale."

Let's do it, make the changes.  Do it KT.  Pull the trigger.  We've seen enough lazy baseball and wild swinging to last us this year.  I want to see some young talent that has a chance of being good.

I really think the problems stem from people thinking we were better than we were the last few seasons.  We've had the four consecutive winning seasons drilled into our heads.  The Padres were always just on the verge of being good, just a little bit more luck and a few more hits and the team would be a championship quality team.  I'm convinced that they were never that good and were getting lucky when they did win.  So because of that we kept a core group of players that we tried to build around and they bring us to this point.

Morale shouldn't be good. If it's good, we have other issues. If morale is good, they have no expectations of being better. Morale should be horrible.

I'm really not convinced that this group of players really care that much.  There has definitely been a lack of concentration and just like the fans, the players expect to lose.

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Man

Just posted this. heh

by sacpadre on May 20, 2008 8:38 AM PDT   0 recs

I still don't think

that the last four years were a fluke. We had pretty solid teams with consistent pitching on both ends, and just enough offense to get by. Our offense was consistently better than it portrayed (Geoff at Ducksnorts has written several articles o this topic) and our defense was stellar.

This year, our bullpen fell aprat early on and gave us an early hole to dig out of. The offense then decided to sputter in response, leading to increased pressure on the pitching staff. This sort of become a violent circle where the hitter tried too hard to bail out the pitching and the pitchers tried to be too perfect to protect the leads. Ultimately, both failed.

I’m really curious to see what happens now. If I had to guess, we’ll retain Iguchi, Adrian, Bard, and Kouz. I think the rest of the team (save Jody Gerut since we have no CF solution) is probably gone. Khalil might stay strictly because we have no SS option, but I have a feeling someone somewhere else will overpay for his services.

by Phantom on May 20, 2008 8:39 AM PDT   0 recs

Trade Considerations

The UT talked about the possibilities of Giles and Maddux being traded. I guess Maddux has a no-trade clause and Giles gets an extra $2 million if he gets traded in addition to the $4 million buyout/$9 million option for next year. That’s some tough stuff to work around for sludge merchant Kevin Towers.

I watched all 23 innings and all I got was this lousy signature.

by Wonko on May 20, 2008 8:43 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'd also say the past four years

were, in part, a by-product of a really weak division.

by Winfield's Ghost on May 20, 2008 8:44 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't buy that

especially since the NLCS came down to two teams in the West. I’ll give you ‘05, but in ‘04, ‘06, and ‘07, the division was pretty good. Remember that the Wild Card came out of the West in 2006 as well.

by Phantom on May 20, 2008 8:57 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

NLCS and the Wild Card

I’d argue that those things speak more to the weakness of the entire NL than it does to the strength of the NL West.

by Winfield's Ghost on May 20, 2008 9:15 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The fact that we had winning seasons

tells us how bad the rest of the league was. We were horrible.

by jbox on May 20, 2008 9:20 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Meh

I suppose we’ll agree to disagree on this one. I don’t see how the rest of the league could have jumped up in talent this much from 2007 to 2008. Seriously. We won 89 games last year.

We’re on pace for like 60 this year. Either every other team got infinitely better, or we suck balls this year.

by Phantom on May 20, 2008 9:20 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

why either?

The obvious answer is a little of both. Every other team got better, but not “infinitely” and we suck taint, but not balls.

by Dex on May 20, 2008 9:22 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I can't honestly

but that every team got better. I think we are really not playing up to our level. Did the Rockies get better? Did the Giants get better?

by Phantom on May 20, 2008 9:28 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

can you buy that ALMOST every team we've played so far got better?

why isn’t that possible? I said it was probably a little of both.

by Dex on May 20, 2008 9:30 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Teams that have improved

Chicago
Florida
Los Angeles
Arizona
Houston
St. Louis

Teams that have stayed the same or gotten worse:

Atlanta
Colorado
Philly
San Francisco
Seattle

I’m basing the “better or worse” on how their current pace reflects the result from last year. So now, I don’t buy that ALMOST every team we’ve played has gotten better. We’re worse than we’ve been in some time. We weren’t “lucky” or just playing bad teams the past four years. We were a better team and we’re not this year.

by Phantom on May 20, 2008 10:05 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

OK so getting back to it

Obviously, we got worse and other teams got better. What are we debating here?

by Dex on May 20, 2008 10:26 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Let's review

I said that we had good teams before and that this year we suck. You (and others) implied that our previous success weren’t because we were good, but rather because the rest of the league sucked.

To play that out, the rest of the league would have had to dramatically improve for your premise to be correct. To wit, only half of the teams we’ve played this year can be said to have improved from last year. The rest of them are at about the same level or worse.

Thus, we didn’t string together 4 winning seasons just because the rest of the league sucked. We had those seasons because we had teams that perfromed well and maximized their strengths. This year, we have a team that is not performing close to its estabished norms. We are playing so poorly that we are losing series’ to teams that are the same level or worse than last year. Thus, we suck.

The whole point of this is an attempt to discredit your agrument that we just preyed on a weak league in previous years. I think I’ve done that effectively, and I hope you understand that there is no malice in this argument.

by Phantom on May 20, 2008 10:48 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

AH HA!!!

All I said is that it doesn’t have to be that the Padres now suck or that the teams got better, but that it could be a little of both. You’re trying to discredit an argument that I never even tried to make.

I WIN!

by Dex on May 20, 2008 10:52 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Touché salesman

Then I guess this argument should be directed at others.

This is more embarassing than that time Drama told everyone about the KG tattoo on my ass.

by Phantom on May 20, 2008 10:59 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

When he gets traded....

...then it’s going to be really embarrassing.

by Drama on May 20, 2008 11:02 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

As I said...

“in part.”

(Man, remember yesterday when Phantom was all like “I’m okay with us not being very good”? Today he’s like “I AM NOT OKAY WITH ANYTHING, ALRIGHT????”)

by Winfield's Ghost on May 20, 2008 11:27 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Too funny

I’m still OK with us sucking, I just think it’s disrespectful to our past team’s to say that our success was because everyone else sucked.

But yeah, we suck pretty bad. I’m pretty interested to see what Towers does about it.

by Phantom on May 20, 2008 11:56 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Is sucking taint better than sucking balls?

I’m not sure I follow the logic.

I watched all 23 innings and all I got was this lousy signature.

by Wonko on May 20, 2008 9:41 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree with Dex

Not about the taint part, but the part about it being some of both.

by Winfield's Ghost on May 20, 2008 9:27 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Either way

It was apparent in the offseason that the NL, in general, was going to be much better than in years past. I think the interleague play this past weekend has demonstrated that fact. Unfortunately, the reality is that the Pads just didn’t keep pace with the other teams as far as trades and free agents were concerned. KT caught a lot of flak for that, at the season ticket holders meeting. But I think people tried to trust him regardless. I think what you are seeing now is KT realizing he has lost a lot of his public trust and he isn’t too stoked about that.

by sacpadre on May 20, 2008 9:22 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Well he trusted in his players.

I’m not a math understander, but if these guys performed to 80% of last year’s numbers, we would still be better than this.

The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

by Axion on May 20, 2008 9:37 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Aren't we missing a pretty big part of this?

Maybe I’m wrong, but the way I’m reading this….Bud Black’s job is now officially in jeopardy. These comments were a direct shot at the manager. If the GM is questioning the teams intensity…questioning whether or not the players even care that they have gone from an 89-game winner to the joke of baseball…that is a reflection on the leadership of this baseball team.

by Drama on May 20, 2008 10:49 AM PDT   0 recs

isn't that a given?

I thought we all knew Bud Black was getting fired soon. That’s the unspoken assumption. He ain’t keeping a job.

by Dex on May 20, 2008 10:53 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Good call

But seems like his job should be in jeopardy. Maybe we can get Willie Randolph after the Mets axe him.

by sacpadre on May 20, 2008 10:54 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yup

That was a direct shot at Buddy and at the team’s leaders. I have liked Buddy, though I hate his misplaced trust in our starting pitchers late in games. I assume that KT gave Buddy this “piece of mind” a week ago and is now going to the media because nothing has happened in the clubhouse.

by BeantownFriar on May 20, 2008 11:07 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The fact that we aren't even discussing his ineptitude

is just another example of how irrelevant he is. He’s already gone. We need to start a pool with dates for his dismissal.

by Winfield's Ghost on May 20, 2008 11:28 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

july 31

Me fail English? That's unpossible!

by sdsuaztec4 on May 20, 2008 11:29 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Just glad to see others

with the pitchforks and torches.

by sacpadre on May 20, 2008 11:32 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

No Fun Club

So, if I’m Maddux, I’m thinking “um, so, I can’t pee on rookie’s legs anymore? This club sux”. And, Giles – is he going to have start wearing clothes at appropriate times?

by BeantownFriar on May 20, 2008 11:11 AM PDT   0 recs

I say

we bring back Marcus Giles and beg Milton to come back if we promise to fire Bud Black. Then at least we’d lose with some intensity.

Me fail English? That's unpossible!

by sdsuaztec4 on May 20, 2008 11:17 AM PDT   0 recs

I'll tell you what.

Say what you want about the Baby Giles and his poor performance at the plate last season…but the fact of the matter is that was a kid that would not stand for the piss-poor effort being seen on a nightly basis right now. I love that guy. .229 hitter or not…I’d take him back today.

by Drama on May 20, 2008 11:31 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

wait, why?

who cares if he wouldn’t stand for it? what would he actually do? sit for it? isn’t that worse?

by Dex on May 20, 2008 11:35 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

like I said

we’d lose with intensity instead of lose with apathy. that’s a little better

Me fail English? That's unpossible!

by sdsuaztec4 on May 20, 2008 11:37 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

No, it's not

Intensity would provide brief moments of hope. I don’t want any hope in my Padres. I want poor baserunning, mental mistakes and lackadaisical attitudes so I can stay angry with them.

by Winfield's Ghost on May 20, 2008 11:39 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Guess

I am one of the few who isn’t really angry with the Padres as much as I am with management. I can look at a broken clock and curse it for not working, but it doesn’t make it work, and it isn’t going to fix itself. Either I get a new clock or get in there in replace the broken parts. So far I haven’t really seen an honest attempt by management to “fix the clock”. They just kind of shake it a bit and hope it works. Seems like KT is finally sick of the clock being right just twice a day.

by sacpadre on May 20, 2008 11:44 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Cutting Edmonds and eating that salary doesn't mean anything to you?

If they didn’t care, they’d have kept throwing Edmonds out there no matter what he did.

The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

by Axion on May 20, 2008 12:16 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

ah i get it

this is why we should trade away the entire infield. i don’t trust any of them to get fired up about anything. trade the outfield too.

by Dex on May 20, 2008 11:44 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Move

The Padres down to the PCL and bring the Beavers up to the MLB.

by sacpadre on May 20, 2008 11:45 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

As sarcastic as you are

I would trade/release the entire infield and outfield save for Adrian Gonzalez.

Me fail English? That's unpossible!

by sdsuaztec4 on May 20, 2008 11:48 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Kouz, too???

But…but…iLOVEkouz5!

by Winfield's Ghost on May 20, 2008 11:49 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I wasn't being sarcastic

I don’t know what Adrian Gonzalez brings to the table except having the most value of any of our position players right now.

by Dex on May 20, 2008 12:01 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Aid

Aside from being a great hitter….he’s a Gold Glove-caliber first baseman. He was born and raised in San Diego. He’s Latino. He just turned 26. He’s a position player we can build around.

Just because a certain player has more trade value than any other…that doesn’t mean you trade him.

Quite honestly, if I could only protect one player…it would be him.

by Drama on May 20, 2008 12:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Marcus was either smiling or near homicidal.

These guys have zero fire. ZERO. Someone needs to have shit fit in that clubhouse. Marcus would be the type of guy to do that. Like what a Kevin Brown brought. It’s infectious. Just like the apathy we’re seeing now is infectious.

by Drama on May 20, 2008 11:46 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

KT's job should be on the line

after horrendous signings

by bosnia08 on May 20, 2008 11:47 AM PDT   0 recs

I doubt it was all KT

And really, the signings haven’t all been “horrendous”. After all, he brought us Bradley last year. Signed Jake to his deal. Made the moves to get CY and Adrian.

Vinny Castilla and Jim Edmonds were really terrible though.

by Dex on May 20, 2008 12:03 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Wolf, Estes, Maddux

The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

by Axion on May 20, 2008 12:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not sure what the point is there...

Decent signing, bad signing, great signing.

by Dex on May 20, 2008 12:21 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I wouldn't call Wolf a decent signing.

Wolf is going to be one of our most valuable trading commodities. Someone is going to way overpay for that guy.

by Drama on May 20, 2008 12:29 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

"Wolf is going to be one of our most valuable trading commodities."

That’s a good thing. Would you call him a bad signing? Because then you’re not making any sense.

by Dex on May 20, 2008 12:37 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Better than decent, maybe.

And Estes doesn’t do anything for ya?

Could you handle Germano and Ledezma on back to back starts if we didn’t have Estes?

The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

by Axion on May 20, 2008 12:39 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

We haven't given Estes enough chance to fail yet

And we lost an entire year where that guy was supposed to be playing for us. It’s basically his fault we had to go to Germano and Ledezma in the first place.

by Dex on May 20, 2008 12:42 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

No

I think he means he was a great signing, not just a decent signing.

Me fail English? That's unpossible!

by sdsuaztec4 on May 20, 2008 12:39 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Ah

Still, until we actually get value from him, I’ll call him decent. When somebody overpays, then it’s a great signing. If we don’t get much then he played decent for us while he was with us.

by Dex on May 20, 2008 12:43 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The way I read your comment...

“Decent signing, bad signing, great signing.” It seemed like you were calling him a decent signing. I’d rate it at very good…depending of course on what KT can get out of him.

by Drama on May 20, 2008 12:43 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

what if we don't get anything more out of him

then he’s still a very good signing?

by Dex on May 20, 2008 12:44 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Performance wise?

Or return in trade?

by Drama on May 20, 2008 12:47 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Dude all I'm saying

We have no idea what we’re gonna get for Wolf if we in fact trade him. Until something happens, I’m not gonna dream about what might be. Calling him “decent” isn’t a bad thing.

by Dex on May 20, 2008 12:48 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Malicious.

Somebody got a big head in New York.

Just because you had a hooker and an eight-ball of coke waiting for you in your hotel room doesn’t mean you’re Mr. Cool Guy now.

by Drama on May 20, 2008 12:50 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Remember

Nobody wants to hear about your dreams, okay?

by Winfield's Ghost on May 20, 2008 12:51 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

He's got us in just as many games as Maddux for half the price.

The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

by Axion on May 20, 2008 12:48 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

We've also had Maddux as a solid starter for longer

And there’s the argument that people will actually pay money to watch Greg Maddux as opposed to Wolf.

by Dex on May 20, 2008 12:49 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

How many criteria are there for good/bad signings?

The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

by Axion on May 20, 2008 12:56 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

tons

I was just being succinct.

by Dex on May 20, 2008 1:04 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

As far as this year

That’s three in favor of Towers. I consider the money spent to acquire these and pluses as well, in comparison to what other clubs paid for similar solutions. (I keep thinking back to Carlos Silva w/ the Mariners)

The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

by Axion on May 20, 2008 12:33 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'd rather not include Estes

Did we pay him for last year? I have trouble ignoring the fact that we haven’t actually got much value out of him yet.

by Dex on May 20, 2008 12:39 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs