San Diego Padres trade short stop Khalil Greene to St. Louis Cardinals for someone or another. We'll figure it out later. Get him away from us.
by Dex on Dec 4, 2008 7:02 AM PST
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PrintAnd so it begins. Reports tell us that Khalil is moving on to St. Louis for whoever the Cardinals might be able to give us later that won't cost us any money. Sure. We'll take that bag of maple bats. Why not?
Greene is due $6.5 million next season. It is unknown whether the Padres assumed any of his remaining salary in the deal.
My guess is, oh hell no. Isn't it a scary thing what the economy will do to you? Trading away short stops who haven't quite lived up to promise to St. Louis? Something about this is vaguely familiar
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He's not gone yet
Hopefully the team comes to their damn senses.
And yes, this is vaguely familiar. A defensive whiz who hadn’t quite put things together with the bat that was pushed out of town in an inexcplicable trade to St. Louis. Can’t say who that brings to mind…
The guy has a freaking .840 career OPS away from Petco. And yet we’re gonna trade him for nothing.
I think the similarities run deeper, in that neither Khalil nor Oz were as valuable in San Diego as elsewhere. Ozzie would have been worthless offensively if it wasn’t for the artificial turf, and Khalil will probably post prettier (not necessarily better) numbers in the NL Central.
As for trading him for nothing, I think it needs to be looked at more along the lines of “trading” for the major league ready pitching they want. By moving Khalil, we get to keep Jake. We pulled a couple nice players from the Dodgers for Maddux, maybe we can do the same with Khalil. Maybe it is spinning the whole thing, but is probably the best way to look at it. I still think the Padres are pulling a fast one on everyone, and with this next step in the great deception, we will sign Furcal (or some other big name).
So do I pass the KhalilOs logo on to Viva El Birdos?
I'm sorry
We never did get as much use out of those rad OS logos as would’ve been nice.
by Dex on Dec 4, 2008 7:45 AM PST up reply actions
I hope they've got something up their sleeves
because right now, things look pretty bad. They had better have some contigency plan at SS that is not named Luis Rodriguez or Sean Kazmar.
Nevermind
He’s gone. I knew he wouldn’t be a Padre past 2009, but this seems like an awfully low haul for a potential franchise player.
I’m not sure how St. Louis’ new park plays, but I’m willing to bet that if Khalil stays healthy all year, he’ll be in serious contention for NL SS in the All-Star game.
Um, are you calling salary relief nothing???
The team saving money next year doesn’t do anything for you? And you call yourself a fan.
by Dalton on Dec 4, 2008 7:48 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I love saving money
It’s always satisfying when I’m able to abuse double coupon day.
by Dex on Dec 4, 2008 7:53 AM PST up reply actions
saving money
and the owners are going to pass them onto the fans, $3 Stone IPA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. " ~Frank Sinatra
by Sammy G on Dec 4, 2008 10:47 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Have the Padres
ever come up on the winning end of a deal with the Cardinals?
Templeton-Ozzie
Woody Williams – Ray Lankford
Jim Edmonds
Don't hate the game, hate the nerds!
Carlos Hernandez
for Heathcliff Slocumb and Ben Johnson should be counted as a win. Carlos gave them 51 good at bats, but Ben Johnson gave us more than that plus he helped get Heat Bell. Slocumb kept his ERA under 4 for his final 19 major league innings.
"Whoa... You can't say stuff like that!"
"I get it Chief. I'll play ball. You just gotta blow the whistle and call the fouls. Alright?"
Padres shill?
at the risk of sounding like a Padres shill – it is hard to get upset about losing one (probably painful) year of Khalil’s baseball labors. Maybe we’ll get a decent pitcher.
Could this even make keeping Peavy (okay, until July) a possibility?
Fernando Valenzuela for Mark Sweeney?
Diagree
First of all, what’s the point of keeping Peavy if you’ve completely crippled your infield defense? The Padres staff always credited Khalil with keeping their ERAs low and I defy you to locate a shortstop via trade or in our system that will fill that hole.
Additionally, there is no guarantee that Khalil’s 2009 would have been more like 2008 than 2007. As I detailed in a thread last week, his game was victimized to a degree by bad luck last year. A super low BABIP while maintaining a career high P/PA certainly would make you think the guys was just not having balls fall in.
I guess I just think keeping an everyday player at a premium defensive position is more important than someone who may start 20 games for us this year before getting traded. Don’t get me wrong, Jake is ridiculously talented. But he only pitches 7 innings every five days. This in no way makes the team better.
I like Khalil but I don't actually think our infield was completely crippled
by Luis Rodriguez at short last year. From what I saw. Who could watch that crap? Though I hope they get someone better.
Maybe he had some bad luck last year, but I think some of his weaknesses as a hitter were exposed and he has yet to respond other than punching a cooler. I would predict he hits 240 with 15 hrs and plays a good shortstop in St Louis.
If St. Louis
is a better hitting environment than Petco (which I assume it is, but to what degree I’m not sure), Khalil will put up relatively gaudy numbers for a shortstop.
I’m not sure how new Busch plays to LF, but I’m willing to bet that Khalil does something like .268/.313/.487 for the Cards next year with 25 to 30 bombs. And remember, Khalil’s only opposite-field HR in his career came at Busch in 2008.
Also
Being the in the Central means Khalil will now have more games at places like Chicago, Pittsburgh, Cincinatti, and Milwaukee, places where he has traditionally mashed the ball. In fact, of all of the Central parks, St. Louis might be the place where he has had the least success.
He’ll tear the cover off the ball and will garner a ton of attention simply because he’ll be in a better baseball market. I wish him all the luck in the world and I can’t wait to the homestand against the Cardinals in mid-August to see how the fans welcome him back.
Will it really be that much of a surprise?
When Khalil returns he’ll get a big cheer. Aside from Peavy he always got the biggest cheers and it’s not like he took a dump on San Diego before he left.
"Whoa... You can't say stuff like that!"
"I get it Chief. I'll play ball. You just gotta blow the whistle and call the fouls. Alright?"
Oh totally
I just look forward to that. Hell, Steve Finley still gets great support from the fans. It will be somewhat cathartic is all.
Speculating
I haven’t seen any names mentioned for this deal, but glancing at some minor league numbers there are 3 relief pitchers I like:
Mark Worrell
Jason Motte
Fernando Salas
Justin Fiske (LH)
I especially like Salas even though the highest he has pitched is AA. He is the youngest and his K:BB ratios are tasty. If I were to pick the one I like better out of Worrell, Motte and Fiske, it’d be Motte.
Mind you, these are still just relief pitchers, so it’s hard to get too excited about any of them.
I have to wonder if Fiske or some other lefty was key to this deal since it came down shortly after the Cardinals got their free agent lefty reliever in Trevor Miller.
"Whoa... You can't say stuff like that!"
"I get it Chief. I'll play ball. You just gotta blow the whistle and call the fouls. Alright?"
according to stltoday.com..
Jason Motte will not be apart of the deal. It sites that the 2 relief pitchers were not on the major league roster at the end of last season and Motte was on the roster. Mark Worrell, however seems to be a lock for the deal, especially after this little diddy http://stlcardinals.scout.com/2/818116.html . Fernando Salas or Francisco Samuel are 2 really good closer prospects that should make it to the bigs.
I hate winter!!!!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 4, 2008 9:35 AM PST up reply actions
Hmmm
A little cocky, but if he wants out, we’ll take him.
Welcome, Heath Bell Jr.
"Whoa... You can't say stuff like that!"
"I get it Chief. I'll play ball. You just gotta blow the whistle and call the fouls. Alright?"
I think his opinions are justified...
but that kind of talk isn’t really what you like to hear from a career minor leaguer. I think he’ll be a solid reliever regardless of whether its san diego or saint louis or elsewhere. However, after that interview, which I"m sure the cardinals brass is aware of, I can’t see him not being included in the deal
I hate winter!!!!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 4, 2008 9:42 AM PST up reply actions
Big day for shortstops
Khalil is moved, Renteria signs with SF, and Detroit just acquired Jack Wilson.
Oh, no you didn't, Phantom
Compare KG to Ozzie in the field? The latter made the Hall of Fame almost solely because of his defense. The former? Yeah, no.
If KG keeps hitting the way he did last year coupled with a predictable defensive decline (however gradual), how much longer is he going to play every day? And I wouldn’t make too rosy of a ‘09 projection based on that road .OPS, as I’m not sure just how accurately predictive that number is.
Right
Because five years worth of playing half your games on the road is clearly not enough to make an accurate prediction. After all, it’s only like 200 – 300 games or something. Not much there at all.
And I wasn’t the only one comparing the two. I never said Khalil was as good defensively as Ozzie, just that he’s damn good defensively. Khalil’s defensive ability is a rare talent for a guy with his power.
The whole point is that there are a slew or parallels here between the Khalil and Ozzie trades. In both cases, the Padres traded light-hitting but defensively brilliant shortstops to the Cardinals. In both situations, as osbug rightly points out above, the Padres valued these players less than the Cardinals did (although clearly the Cardinals have raked the Padres over the coals here given the weak return).
But I think there’s plenty of evidence to suggest that this trade could haunt the Padres for years and that Khalil could become a superstar in the NL Central. He will never put up gaudy numbers at Petco, but he was a force on the road. It’s better to have a defensive stud who tears the cover off the ball half the time instead of….
Wait, what exactly do we have in place of Khalil?
A big difference
Khalil will be a free agent after this season. So while Ozzie ended his career with the Cards, Khalil is probably a one year rental.
"Whoa... You can't say stuff like that!"
"I get it Chief. I'll play ball. You just gotta blow the whistle and call the fouls. Alright?"
It depends
Although with Pittsburgh having an opening at short, I wouldn’t be surprised if they make a run at him for 2010. I think that if Khalil becomes a FA, he’ll try to play somewhere closer to the Carolinas, but I’m not sure. But who knows, if he has a great year, the Cards may throw some money at him.
You're right
There are a lot of dependencies. But I can be sure of one thing: He will be a free agent at the end of 2009. Which means there is no guarantee the Cardinals will get him back.
"Whoa... You can't say stuff like that!"
"I get it Chief. I'll play ball. You just gotta blow the whistle and call the fouls. Alright?"
True, but Ozzie was hardly a Hall of Famer before he was traded
Great player, sure. Hall of Famer? Not so much.
At the time, lots of people thought Templeton would turn out to be the better of the two.
Stats
Is Khalil Greene Worth Trading For?
The answer is “yes” and then I’m lost because it talks about stats instead of his hair.
Past stats aside,
Greenie has been granted god status in PETCO Park and whenever the Padres play in St. Louis. A new nemesis is born.
Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?
I'm a fan of Greene, but it seems y'all overrate his glove a bit.
Sean Smith projects him at five runs better than the average shortstop for 2009. With a below-average bat (but not awful) and the fact that he plays shortstop, I put him at a 2.5 WAR player. For $6MM, that’s a good price. But the Padres don’t need him next year and the return of decent relief prospects is a bonus.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
Phantom, "if you were to see him play every day ... defense"
Is the baseball version of “Some of my best friends are black.”
OK, just a little bit of stretch there. Ignore the race angle – I’m talking about willful naiveté and defensiveness. We are fans, we love our guys and have their backs, even when – in this case – the statistical evidence does not back up our positions. The metrics say he is little above average, not “brilliant.” Certainly his “brilliance” is not in the same as Ozzie’s “brilliance.” My point was if he doesn’t get his approach back in order, he’s not going to OPS .850 (yikes, I used OPS as a verb) next season no matter where he plays. And some of that road OPS is thanks to playing a bunch in Coors Field.
I’m sure someone way smarter than me, like Bill James, Rob Neyer or Keith Law, could explain why you don’t necessarily assume his career road OPS to be an 100 percent accurate predictor of KG’s 2009 line.
Along those lines....
You’ve got to imagine that for someone to be good enough to play shortstop, they have to be a pretty good athlete and pretty good at fielding groundballs. At the MLB level, that’s going to result in a lot of impressive plays from nearly all shortstops, even Derek Jeter. So while a shortstop might be a really good fielder, that doesn’t mean he’s necessarily way better or even at all better than the average MLB shortstop. And that’s why you need a position adjustment – a “mediocre”-fielding shortstop still has great value and doesn’t need to hit all that well to have a MLB job.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Dec 4, 2008 12:45 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Isn't Normandin still there?
Is that Wade kid still there?
by Dex on Dec 4, 2008 1:57 PM PST up reply actions
Marc’s everywhere, man. He writes for probably have a dozen or more baseball sites and at least one video game blog that I’m aware of.
by Richard Wade on Dec 8, 2008 10:47 AM PST up reply actions
I'm not saying
it’s going to be a stone-cold predictor. That’s impossible to do in baseball. I’m saying that it’s a reasonable baseline.
As for the defense issue, defensive metrics are notoriously unreliable and imperfect. Most of the premier defensive metrics end up at odds with one another in some regard. Yes, it is highly anecdotal to go with the “if you see him play” line, but it’s typically the best we have when it comes to defense. I also rely on the comments of other commentators (which I typically get given I listen to games on XM and watch games on MLB.TV) and the comments made by players. All of these have highlighted Khalil to be an extremely special defensive talent.
Derek Jeter
The problem with this attitude is, it is very similar to the defense Jeter fans take. “Numbers can’t show how good or bad Jeter is, there is no way they can account for everything.” While one defensive metric by itself isn’t damning (and the metrics out there are getting better and better), when every rating, measurement or study ever done ranks you at or near the bottom, you have to take notice. I have a feeling that Khalil, while still a good shortstop, isn’t as good as we want to believe. And “if you see him play” is not the best we have.
I agree with you that maybe we didn’t get full value for Khalil (even though we aren’t even sure what we got/are getting). I think last year was a fluke and he will regress to the norm. He is still a valuable player, regardless of what he did last year. He will continue to be a league average hitter (above average for a shortstop), with some power, and play good defense. Yes, his numbers will be prettier, and probably better overall, playing in the NL Central, but how does that help or hurt us? Who cares what he does in STL? He may become a superstar there, but he won’t for us. It does hurt that we don’t have anyone to replace him yet, but I think we will suffer less replacing him than Jake.
I like Khalil, and am sad that we couldn’t keep him around. I defended him many times on here, and stil will. Heck, I made shirts about him. But no matter how we look at it, he is more valuable to someone else than to us. And if moving him means keeping Jake, I am all for it.
And just a little clarification:
as osbug rightly points out above, the Padres valued these players less than the Cardinals did (although clearly the Cardinals have raked the Padres over the coals here given the weak return)
I don’t think the Padres value him less than the Cardinals, I just think he is less valuable to us. Semantics I know, but still significant. I don’t doubt the Padres know how good he is.
Sweet!
We’re getting a minor league pitcher that is known for popping off and a minor league pitcher!
Totally a steal!
Popping Off
The guy wanted to help the major league team and they didn’t let him. I’m not going to get too pissed about that.
"Whoa... You can't say stuff like that!"
"I get it Chief. I'll play ball. You just gotta blow the whistle and call the fouls. Alright?"
Besides, you wanna pop off?
Go ahead. Padres’ll dock your pay.
Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?
Unlikely
"Whoa... You can't say stuff like that!"
"I get it Chief. I'll play ball. You just gotta blow the whistle and call the fouls. Alright?"
This actually makes a lot of sense
We’re not going to be good for a couple of years anyway, so we might as well go into full-fledged rebuilding mode.
His trade value won't really go down much in the next couple years, though.
Just something teams don’t understand well enough.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
I'd be curious to see how little we could get
“This guy’s going to be a regular all-star and MVP candidate. What can I get for him”
“Maple bats and-”
“SOLD!!!”
“Don’t you want to hear what else I’m offer-”
“SOLD, GOLDARNIT!”
Here's the conversation KT had with Moores after the trade....
KT: Hey Jon good news I cleard $6.5 Mil of the payroll!
JM: What did we get in return?
KT: A bundel of the finest maple bats you have ever seen!
JM: Great Kevin get on the phone ASAP to see how much you can sell those bats for!
by Grey Suit on Dec 4, 2008 12:55 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
JM: And get them to pay cash, I don’t want it on the books.
by 'Eaters on Dec 4, 2008 3:17 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm in favor, but not
I have a strong feeling that you will not be able to get proper value in return for Adrian. There just aren’t enough teams willing to deal prospects and have a opening at first base.
It doesn’t make sense for the franchise if you can’t get value in return AND you aren’t helping the payroll.
"Whoa... You can't say stuff like that!"
"I get it Chief. I'll play ball. You just gotta blow the whistle and call the fouls. Alright?"
Yeah, some haul. Despite what I wrote, I’m not at all excited today to be a Pads fan. I’d take the 2007 version of Khalil, even with a .291 OBP, or even the rookie version (.349). If they could get two blue-chippers at premium positions + beer and bats for Gonzo, they might as well. It’s looking pretty bleak.
No comparison
Ozzie was already clearly the best defensive shortstop in the majors when he was traded. Probably the best defensive player in baseball.
The Padres wanted to trade him because they didn’t want to pay him in free agency. Garry Templeton was already a malcontent and bad clubhouse influence at the time of the trade.
Ozzie was terrible offensively in 1981, but Templeton was coming off his worst season — a .315 on-base percentage.
The Padres also got Sixto Lezcano in the deal. He had a very nice year in 1982 before he was traded.
Worrell
For what it’s worth, you’re getting a fun guy to watch. Mark in his brief stint with the big club this season provided my favorite highlight.
Go here and type Worrell in the search box.
Also with the quirky delivery and good k numbers I think he has a chance to succeed in Petco. But then, I was one of the many that were upset that he kept getting overlooked in callups.
this is about Khalil isn't it??
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. " ~Frank Sinatra
Yeah
I dunno who I’m gonna be able to man-crush on as hard as I have with Khalil. I think part of the thing with Khalil was that there were always people that disliked him for reasons that I thought were pretty stupid (he doesn’t show emotion, he’s got long blonde hair, he’s a humidifier to our female (and some male) fans, etc.).
Part of the fun with Khalil was that there was always a genuine debate. He was a great, but flawed, player. He showed flahses of brillaince in-between spouts of sheer hopelessness. There wasn’t really a definitive answer on him.
I guess I could be Gey, but I wouldn’t want to get sliced by Drama.
we should set up a poll for you new “padres crush”. Of course it has to be someone flawed but valuable.
in no particular order;
1) Andre the Pad Squader
2) Cheryl the usher at section 107
3) Mud
4) Baek
5) Kouz
6) Claw
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. " ~Frank Sinatra
by Sammy G on Dec 4, 2008 1:11 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
would you really want to deal with two Kouz crushing people
I hooked up my accelerator pedal in my car to my brake lights. I hit the gas, people behind me stop, and I'm gone.
~*Chicks Dig 3rd Basemen*~
by iLOVEkouz5 on Dec 4, 2008 1:13 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I assume there is sarcasm here?
Or are you casting final judgement on a guy based on 5 2/3 innings?
"Whoa... You can't say stuff like that!"
"I get it Chief. I'll play ball. You just gotta blow the whistle and call the fouls. Alright?"
More curious then anything else
Forgive me but a PTBNL and a reliever isn’t much of a haul
by TheAxManCometh on Dec 4, 2008 2:48 PM PST up reply actions
WTF???????????????
THAT DEFEATS THE WHOLE PURPOSE.
This just keeps getting more and more asinine.
www.PadsAndEnds.blogspot.com
"jbox does not drink coffee, as it makes him clean house big time." ~Kev
by TheThirdGonzalez on Dec 4, 2008 2:24 PM PST up reply actions
trade him for nuggets and a sauce to be named later
i choose hot mustard
www.wellbelowthemendozaline.blogspot.com
Yeah
The depth of retardation and insanity about this move is just staggering.
How in the hell can they rationalize this move? Financially, they’re not even cutting that much money now.
Khalil’s salary: (6.5 M)
2 Minor Leaguers at league minimum: 2 @ 400,000
Trade Incentive!: 1M
Total: So while the Padres shed Khalil’s 6.5M salary, this move costs them 1.8 M. This means they’re cutting about 4.7 M, which really is not that much. If we were so worried about salaries, why the hell didn’t we just eat Giles’ $3M option instead of eating an additional $6M?
This makes no sense.
Oddly enough
the paragraph has been removed. It was there when I posted the comment, and I first became aware of it because of the blurb at MLBTR: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/khalil-greene-d.html
Thak god that's not the case after all.
from mlb.com:
Greene will make $6.5 million in 2009, with the Cardinals on the hook to pay all of it.
www.PadsAndEnds.blogspot.com
"jbox does not drink coffee, as it makes him clean house big time." ~Kev
by TheThirdGonzalez on Dec 4, 2008 8:34 PM PST up reply actions
This is all Norv Turner's fault
2009 San Diego Padres. Not as bad as Aztec Football!
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Dec 4, 2008 2:42 PM PST reply actions
Are you sure it isnt Zombie Ted Cottrell?
Back from the grave?
Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?
It must be Bobby Ross
2009 San Diego Padres. Not as bad as Aztec Football!
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Dec 4, 2008 3:15 PM PST up reply actions
YOU GOT LEAFED
2009 San Diego Padres. Not as bad as Aztec Football!
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Dec 4, 2008 3:37 PM PST up reply actions
No way.
Leaf would have traded him for a handful of Vicodins.
www.PadsAndEnds.blogspot.com
"jbox does not drink coffee, as it makes him clean house big time." ~Kev
by TheThirdGonzalez on Dec 4, 2008 4:21 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I hear that Yunel Escobar is pretty good.
Kind of looks like we need a SS now, huh? THE PLOT THICKENS.
Word on the street
Is that the Braves won’t part with Yunel now that they have traded Lillibridge. They also appear to be the front runner for A.J. Burnett. Things change fast.
"Whoa... You can't say stuff like that!"
"I get it Chief. I'll play ball. You just gotta blow the whistle and call the fouls. Alright?"
Was Yunel ever on the table? If so, the Pads should have done Peavy for Yunel straight up in a heartbeat.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
Greene-lighted.
www.PadsAndEnds.blogspot.com
"jbox does not drink coffee, as it makes him clean house big time." ~Kev
by TheThirdGonzalez on Dec 5, 2008 11:47 AM PST up reply actions
I think a little piece of my heart died today.
Life always goes on...even if you don't want it to
by TheVinylCrocodile on Dec 4, 2008 10:53 PM PST reply actions
Merv and Wally
are both thinking that Khalil will benefit greatly from this move:
"I am very happy for him," Merv Rettenmund said. "You just want him to do well. Of all the guys in baseball I’ve talked to over the years, he’s one of my favorites. Talk about an interesting guy. Greeney is super."
Said Wally Joyner, who took over for Rettenmund in July 2007 and resigned three months ago: "This is a great opportunity for Khalil. I think everybody benefits from change, especially when things weren’t successful. I think Khalil definitely will benefit from this, possibly more than others would. I left Khalil a message and told him I think he’ll enjoy working with (Cardinals hitting coach) Hal McRae."
It’s quotes like these that always made me wonder how people could claim that Khalil somehow didn’t care.
Anyway, I hope he has huge years in St. Louis and I specifically hope he pwns us whenever we play the Cardinals. It’s just pathetic to see the team dump him so unceremoniously.
So you're a Khalil Greene fan
not a Padres fan?
2009 San Diego Padres. Not as bad as Aztec Football!
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Dec 5, 2008 11:24 AM PST up reply actions
Rather let me put it in a less assholish way
Are you more of a Khalil fan than a Padres fan? I guess Khalil can hit 10 HRs when the Cards play us as long the Padres still win, then ok.
2009 San Diego Padres. Not as bad as Aztec Football!
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Dec 5, 2008 11:36 AM PST up reply actions
I can kinda relate.
I mean, we’re gonna lose anyway so it might as well be due to him, right?
www.PadsAndEnds.blogspot.com
"jbox does not drink coffee, as it makes him clean house big time." ~Kev
by TheThirdGonzalez on Dec 5, 2008 11:49 AM PST up reply actions
No way dude!
I thought the same thing about Tony Gwynn Jr.
“If anybody has to beat us, I wouldn’t mind if it were TGJ”
Turns out, it makes the sting hurt that much more.
Good point.
How the hell could I forget that?
www.PadsAndEnds.blogspot.com
"jbox does not drink coffee, as it makes him clean house big time." ~Kev
by TheThirdGonzalez on Dec 5, 2008 12:11 PM PST up reply actions
Not at all
I just think he was treated pretty badly by the team for the past few years. For a shortstop, a f*cking shortstop!, to put up the offensive numbers he did was pretty special. How the hell that was continually lost on the FO is baffling.
Shortstops are for defense. They’re like condoms. Anything else you get on top of the defense is gravy.
by Phantom on Dec 5, 2008 12:05 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
And according to most metrics he was a little below average defensively. And last year he was below replacement level offensively. Just studly.
by Richard Wade on Dec 8, 2008 10:50 AM PST up reply actions
Anyone find that funny?
Khalil gets traded, so they run to the last two guys he (theoretically) got fired for comments?
Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?
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