Is Sandy Alderson hurting the franchise?
by Phantom on Nov 11, 2008 7:59 AM PST
33 comments
I don't write this lightly. For a long time, I have been a vehement defender of the FO. I have been especially committed to Sandy Alderson's approach of trying to build a winning team by assembling under-rated parts with under-appreciated abilities. But as events have unfolded since about August 2008, I have now come to question whether or not Alderson is hurting the San Diego Padres.
From strictly a baseball perspective, I think the guy has a track record that speaks for itself. He came on in 2005 and the Padres instantly won the West two straight seasons and narrowly missed a third. He's had demonstrable success in Oakland and the Padres enjoyed three of their four best seasons under his watch.
Unfortunately, Alderson is no longer just making baseball decisions. Somehow he's become the face of the FO, and it's his interactions with both the public and the players that have forced me to question Alderson's net impact on the team. Follow me below the fold for the rest of my reasoning.
Since the day he joined the Padres, Sandy Alderson has been a distraction. There were instantly questions from the media and the fans about whether or not Towers was being replaced. Things were especially tenuous in the winter of 2005 when Towers was permitted to interview with the D-Backs, a move many people thought possible only because of Alderson's presence.
And things have never really changed since that first day. While the team has morphed and changed, Alderson has been consistently in the minds of the fans. As many on this site have noted, he's not the best public speaker. He doesn't tolerate idiocy and he's frequently abrasive and guarded during his appearances on public radio. He's made comments in the print media in the past that are enigmatic at best, and are sometimes too pugnacious.
Lest you think that this is solely a reaction to the Hoffman news, here is my litany of concerns about Sandy Alderson. Now, again, I think the guy has a brilliant mind for baseball. But I'm starting to get worried that his ego is having a net negative impact on the long-term health of the San Diego Padres.
- The Jake Peavy debacle. Now, believe me, Jake is certainly shouldering his share of blame through all of this. But there does appear to be this underlying conflict between Jake and Sandy that is getting us to this place. I guarantee you that when Jake is traded, he will take the opportunity to take some parting shots, and I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of those comments center on Alderson.
- Khalil Greene's tenure as a Padre. Surprisingly, this hasn't really set me off in the past, but Alderson has been campaigning publicly against Greene for some time. There were a lot of whispers about the health of Khalil's family during last winter's contract negotiations, and I guarantee some of that was manufactured by the FO to cover themselves. When Greene refused the four-year offer, I think Alderson probably decided that Khalil would be gone after 2009. The whole locker incident this year and the team publicly trying to recoup money has likely further strained relations between Greene and the team.
- Wally Joyner's departure. To be sure, it was a weak move on Wally's part to bail mid-season. Yet, when it happened, many of us speculated that it was due to tension between the FO and Wally. A lot of people have accused the FO of trying to manage the team on the field, and this seemed like another manifestation of that occurrence.
- The exit of Bruce Bochy. Again, this wasn't a necessarily bad thing for the Padres (although Bud was miserable last year), but public opinion was that Bochy was sort of run out-of-town by the FO. A lot of people connected this to the notion that Bochy wasn't managing the team per the FO's wishes.
- Trevor Hoffman. This is now the second time that relations between the Padres and Hoffman have been strained during FA negotiations. This time, things seem worse, and the decision to completely pull the contract is just baffling. It certainly seems spiteful and a lot of us see Sandy's fingerprints all over the situation.
This is what I was able to come up with on my drive in to work this morning. I'm sure that some of you have other examples, and I invite you to post them below. Again, let me reiterate, I think Alderson is a brilliant baseball man. There's really no debating that. But I think his ego and his personality are starting to become their own narrative, which is not a positive thing for the team.
Even if Alderson is not directly responsible for all of the above situations, the public's perception is that Alderson is involved. It's kind of like the Chargers. Whenever something happens, good or bad, it's seen to be the result of a decision made by AJ Smith. The same thing is starting to happen with the Padres, and I'm starting to be concerned about the long-term viability of the team.
From a marketing/PR perspective, the team is killing themselves right now. If you lose Peavy, Hoffman, Greene, and potentially others, you're not going to draw fans to the ballpark. The City, which is already suspect of the FO, will become further embittered and it will be difficult for the Padres to break 2M fans next year. And this concerns me. I love the San Diego Padres. I want them to be the San Diego Padres for a long time. But if Sandy Alderson continues to be a media narrative unto himself (again, right or wrong, this is what's happening), what does the future hold for our team?
This FanPost was written by a member of the Gaslamp Ball community and does not necessarily reflect the views of the Gaslamp Ball managers or SB Nation.
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I think its more of John Moores hurting the franchise
I would imagine that Sandy would love to keep Peavy but when the owner tells you to cut payroll you look for the biggest contract, also it was Moores who would not talk to Trevor not Sandy.
While I dont like Sandy all that much I think this is all really coming from the top.
by Steve (Grey Suit) on Nov 11, 2008 8:13 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Disagree completely
I don’t think this has much to do with Moores at all. He’s done everything he can to support the franchise while bleeding money on the team.
My issue with Alderson is that he has become a prima donna himself. He makes issues public when they shouldn’t be (see Khalil bullet) and he just consumes too much oxygen when it comes to the Padres.
by Phantom on Nov 11, 2008 8:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you that Sandy does not handle the PR all that well
But I don’t think he is the one telling Moores “hey you know what would be a good idea? cutting payroll!”
Alderson has righted the ship from the dismal 1999 – 2004 days… our farm system use to be a complete joke now it is somewhat respectable.
Don’t get me wrong I really don’t like SA and his my way is right and your an idiot if you don’t agree attitude but payroll decisions come from the owner and the FO has to fill the team within those guidelines.
by Steve (Grey Suit) on Nov 11, 2008 8:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Another consideration
that I’ve completely overlooked is that the Padres will be renegotiating their TV rights soon (I think the deal is up either after this year or 2010). If things continue along the current path where casual fans view the team with nothing but suspicion and derision, how the hell are they supposed to get a better TV deal? One of the big things that holds the Padres back payroll-wise is that their current deal with Cox is pretty low, especially when compared to other teams in MLB. A lot of us were hoping that if the team might have more leverage if they could prove themselves as perennial contenders with an excited fan base.
How the hell are the Padres supposed to pitch the idea that their product is worth more money if nobody shows up to the games? Why would Cox pony up extra cash when they can point to declining viewership?
by Phantom on Nov 11, 2008 8:40 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Really?
Come on.
We need to stop thinking with our hearts and start thinking with our brains. The padres are a business, not a charity. They are a franchise, not a collection of individual players. They are a team, not a bunch of egos. We need to stop insinuating that the FO is an evil orgainzation that conspires to shit on the fans and run the team into the ground and then run off with a bunch of money, cackling into the sunsent. We need to look at this objectively and without bias, without our emotions running wild. We have to look at the big picture and all the underlying conditions that make this a unique case. Keep the economy in mind, especially that of San Diego. Keep in mind the divorce. I don’t care what you think about that, but when your owner loses half his money, something has got to happen. Keep in mind injuries, poor free agent markets, and the millions of other factors besides SA is a douche.
Jake- Look, if KT can get a good package for him it makes the team better. If that is the case, that such be the end of discussion. The team is better. If you want to go into the emotional stuff, let’s do it. Did Jake really think we were going to turn a 99 loss team into a world series winner? That’s why he asked for a trade, because the FO wasn’t trying enough to be a contender. So either he is a ignorant moron, or he really wanted out. He has been openly critical of the FO for awhile, lied constantly about his health, and let’s face it, awful in big games. So, do you want a player that doesn’t want to be here, or 3 or 4 good young players?
Khalil- He doesnt’ want to be here, plain and simple. Whether its because he wants to be closer to his family or whatever, that’s respectable, just be honest about it. I don’t think this one will be as contentious as Trevor or Jake, but if any team is dumb enough to give us value for him, why the hell not? Also, I don’t know where I stand on the money recoup, I mean if any of us purposly hurt ourselves and cannot work, are we still going to get paid but our employers?
Wally-Yet another person putting himself above the team. You don’t agree with the team’s philosophy, fine. Dont’ make a hissy fit and quit in the middle of the season.
Trevor-This one is going to be the one that is most contentious. There is probably blame to be had on both sides of the card here. Trevor’s ego was obviously hurt by their 4 M offer and he wanted to “talk” about it. Trevor is a baseball player. He’s paid to play baseball. He’s not paid to run the franchise. The FO doesn’t “owe” him anything money wise. What they “owe” him is respect. But sentimental value isn’t worth millions of dollars when you are running a business. This was a business decision, it’s not about spite or anger. They offered a contract and he didn’t feel it was adequate. They weren’t going to offer anything different, so no deal can be reached. There is nothing left to do. This seems like something Trevor’s side released to the media to foster bad feelings toward them, hence all of the “no comments” from the FO.
Sandy-Before he came our farm system was a f*cking joke. It was literally the laughingstock of MLB. Now, it is a respectable system in the top half of baseball, and is consistantly getting better, especially with the most recent draft. He turned a non-existant presence in the Dominican to the best facility in the country. He’s made inroads into the baseball market in the Far East. He is a lawyer from a military background. People are going to have a problem with his personality because he’s not a people person, he’s a business person, and a damn good one at that. He get’s things done. I want him running my business, not a people pleaser. Everyone keeps complaining that its about the money. OF COURSE ITS ABOUT THE MONEY! This is a business! Not a charitable organization! This isn’t the make a wish foundation. We’re not going to sign Tony Gwynn to a new contract because it would be popular with the fans. They aren’t going to throw money at fan favorate players if it doesn’t make business sense because it makes the fans feel warm and fuzzy inside! This isn’t about me. Or you. Or the Players. Or the people in the FO. This is about making a talented young team that can win as soon as possible and if means some people are going to get hurt along the way, so be it. The ends justify the means. You don’t have to like it. Of course people aren’t going to like it. You don’t have to agree with it. But if you aren’t going to watch and support the TEAM anymore because your favorite player got traded or left in free agency, you are being selfish and I feel sorry for you. To reiterate the old adage, There is no “I” in “TEAM”. That is all.
GO PADRES!
Ron Rivera. Change we can believe in. YES WE CAN!
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Nov 11, 2008 9:07 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
I totally agree
that Alderson is a good baseball guy. You’re not gonna get any argument from me on that front. I also agree that the situations above were not solely Sandy’s fault. But the problem is that fans will perceive him to be an antagonist. I do NOT think that the FO is an evil entity out to hose the fans and the city. But the problem is that a lot of people ARE starting to feel that way.
Look, this really comes down to an issue of perception. Casual fans, by their very nature, don’t pay attention to the team the way we do. I’d say that if you post on this board, you’re probably not a casual fan. But even some people here think that Sandy is the devil incarnate and, right or wrong, that will have a material impact on the team.
Like I said, Alderson is a baseball genius. The current state of the farm system is a stellar example of what he’s been able to do in a few years. But I really do worry that the FOis verging on irreperable damage when it comes to the public perception of the team. And it’s not going to end there. Adrian’s comments on XX today about keeping this situation in mind during his contract negotiations points to the next consequence of this perception. Coupled with the very public attempt to recoup money from Khalil, players are going to start being really cautious when they deal with the team.
by Phantom on Nov 11, 2008 9:35 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
You sound like one of the “bad guys” in an Ayn Rand novel.
by Richard Wade on Nov 11, 2008 9:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ellsworth Toohey
perhaps?
I really am conflicted because I’d love to look at this as a black and white issue. The quality of the team’s personnel is in better shape because of Sandy Alderson.
But is the value of the franchise in better shape because of Sandy Alderson? I’m starting to worry that his personality/ego is beginning to outweigh his net positives.
Roark was successful because he was supremely self-confident. And he paid dearly for it in the public’s perception. The thing to remember about Ayn Rand stories is that the supremely confident protagnists live satisfied in their brilliance, but live alone. Atlantis was a secluded community where only the best were permitted. While they were able to thrive, the rest of the world suffered.
Unfortunately for us, Sandy’s supreme self confidence and satisfaction in the virtue of his choices is not well served as the head of such a publicly scrutinized organization.
by Phantom on Nov 11, 2008 10:01 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I completely agree with you also
You are completely right about this being about the public perceptions and I didn’t articulate that. I guess I just don’t think that way. It’s probably more of a study in Sociology more than anything and I’m not really good at that. I can see and understand the emotional issues attached, I guess I can just toss those aside easier than others.
You are also right about the unintended consequences that this whole operation might cause. Those things are what scare me the most. But again, if Adrian doesn’t want to renew his contract because the FO was a big meanie doo doo head than I dunno. But we are getting ahead of ourselves.
Basically, I agree with you. But I think we should be trying to argue and convice people NOT to have these perceptions, rather than foster them, because those negative perceptions is what is going to fuel the negative unindented consequences. Not only that, it will fuel bad, bad, bad things for the organization. Negative perceptions fuel more negativity, Padres lose money, franchise goes down the shitter.
BUT. This is why I’m not worried. Winning cures all ills. As soon as the team starting winning and making the playoffs, people will forgive and forget. That’s just how it works.
Ron Rivera. Change we can believe in. YES WE CAN!
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Nov 11, 2008 9:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
At this point, I’m sort of praying that someone will swoop in and buy the team. Because at this point, I’m not sure what it will take to rehab the team’s image in the public’s mind. I hope like hell that winning would be enough, but there was a lout of grousing about this team even when we were winning.
by Phantom on Nov 11, 2008 10:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Joyner
I can’t remember where, but I think it was finally divulged that the person really at odds with Joyner was Grady Fuson.
by Winfield's Ghost on Nov 11, 2008 9:09 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I remember that too.
But it must have been the big bad evil wolf Sandy.
Ron Rivera. Change we can believe in. YES WE CAN!
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Nov 11, 2008 9:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You think Grady doesn't know who the boss is?
If Grady had been doing something Sandy had a problem with his ass would have been out the door. Everybody knows who’s running the show.
by Drama on Nov 11, 2008 10:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yeah sure
But if we’re gonna lay all of this on Alderson, let’s do it accurately. Not like Wally was arguing with Sandy down in the cages or Sandy was the one instructing to take a different plate approach. You can argue that Fuson was delivering Sandy’s message, but it was still Fuson delivering it. I don’t think any casual fan takes any interest whatsoever in where or how the message is delivered.
by Winfield's Ghost on Nov 11, 2008 10:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think this is a payroll issue caused by Moore's divorce
They offered Hofman 4 million + incentives. Given that they are trying to trade Peavy (and possibly Giles) that’s probably all the money they could muster.
We’ll have to see where the chips fall when all is said and done, but with the Padres strong farm system and infusion of young talent coming in from potential Peavy/Giles trades, the Padres should be better off in the long run. It’s always better to rebuild early, before it’s too late
by NeifiChicken on Nov 11, 2008 10:13 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Nice post, Phantom.
The only other example that you missed that fits perfectly into your argument is the way negotiations were handled with Mike Cameron.
by Drama on Nov 11, 2008 10:22 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Thank you, sir
and the point about Cameron is well-taken.
The one thing I wanted to emphasize is that I don’t think Sandy is a bad baseball executive. I just think he needs to find a way to get out of the spotlight. At some point he becamse the spokesperson. Don’t let him talk to public radio anymore. Have Towers make all of the announcements and give all of the official comments. Alderson’s personality is starting to hurt the franchise.
by Phantom on Nov 11, 2008 10:52 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
He's a horrible executive
But I think Towers has shown he doesn’t know what he’s doing and that DePodesta is too tied to players he likes to be an impartial one.
by TheAxManCometh on Nov 11, 2008 1:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
KT and DePo don't know what they are doing?
LMFAO
Ron Rivera. Change we can believe in. YES WE CAN!
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Nov 11, 2008 2:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Not sure how we get to “Towers has shown he doesn’t know what he’s doing”. He did put together the best team the Padres ever had (’98).
by Phantom on Nov 11, 2008 2:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is why people need to read my above diatribe
Among other things….
Ron Rivera. Change we can believe in. YES WE CAN!
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Nov 11, 2008 2:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That might be the dumbest thing I’ve seen written in the comments of this blog.
by Richard Wade on Nov 11, 2008 2:36 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
You did see my comment
about Rafael Furcal and stolen bases, right?
by Phantom on Nov 11, 2008 9:34 PM PST up reply actions 5 recs
PLEASE make that green.
So good, Phantom.
by Drama on Nov 11, 2008 10:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, I already did my part.
www.PadsAndEnds.blogspot.com
"jbox does not drink coffee, as it makes him clean house big time." ~Kev
by TheThirdGonzalez on Nov 11, 2008 11:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't tell if Alderson is hurting the Padres
I know that they are trying to trade everything of value from the 2008 team. At the current time I don’t know if he is getting a greater value from those trades.
As fans I don’t think we have any idea what the 2009 starting roster will look like. It’s completely up in the air.
by jbox on Nov 11, 2008 11:08 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
a ton of sandy alderson threads ...
I doubt Sandy is hurting the club to be honest. San Diego is a fair weather sports town. Build a winner and they will come, right?
go Gulls!
reposted from the Sandy Alderson report card thread ..
I understand the direction Alderson is taking this ball club, and I appreciate it. I have stood up for him and Moores for a while. This ship sorely needed any direction, it needed a new captain. I guess that’s why I have never understood how Kevin Towers was allowed to keep his gig. Towers spent a decade routinely crashing this yacht into the rocks.
The A’s won four division titles, three AL pennants and a World Series during Alderson’s tenure. Billy Beane then destroyed it, but hey, thats another story. The point is I am stoked to have Sandy Alderson at the helm.It’s not so much that I don’t like Sandy Alderson’s ego though, it’s that Sandy is a baseball man, he is an inner circle guy. If there is an MLB "Star Chamber", Sandy gets a seat. I guess you can I don’t trust him.
Whenever huge contracts get signed in MLB, not by the padres mind you, but by any other team, you will routinely hear Sandy grumbling to the media. It’s not even his team, but the media knows to go to Sandy for a quote. I guess that could be ego. When Bud Selig needed someone to cleanup and reorganize the umps, he called Sandy. Who do you think fired all those Umpires back in ’99 in an attempt to break the union?
Sandy.
link ’’They’re making a mistake if they think they’re going to resign and still umpire,‘’ said an official privy to Selig’s thinking. He added that barring a change in that thinking, Selig will accept the resignations and wish the umpires well in their future careers. ‘’Richie is looking for something he’s not going to get. Bud and the owners will see this as a chance to get rid of Richie and break the union.‘’. Phillips is counting on baseball’s experience with replacement umpires to prompt Selig and Sandy Alderson, who has been the point man in umpiring matters, to negotiate a deal by Sept. 2.
Just a week or so back, there was an interview in the UT about Moores divorce, about how everyone in baseball appreciates the fact that he puts MLB itself, before his team. I can’t find the link now, but it was around the same time that Bud came out with his praise too.
“He brings great leadership in a lot of really important areas,” Selig said of Moores before last night’s World Series game at Citizens Bank Park. “He’s had a great history the last decade. And I would not like to lose that leadership. "He’s very important. He’s been on all of the important committees. He’s been involved in all things. When I tell you he’s been a really constructive force in this sport, I am not exaggerating.”
well yeah, because John Moores is hands off, and he lets Buds pal Sandy control everything.
“I expect to be consulted but I’m highly confident that from here on out, personnel decisions will be his,” the owner said.
don’t get me wrong, San Diego gets repaid in kind.
link Alderson was influential in bringing the semi-finals and championship game of the inaugural World Baseball Classic to San Diego in March of 2006.
its all inner circle stuff.
Something else. I have never heard of an MLB team refusing to pay a player for an injury. Maybe I am wrong, I certainly haven’t researched it. I know it hasn’t happened in San Diego. When Sandy Alderson was pressed on this exact issue today, " ..whether this has happened before in the MLB", Sandy avoided answering he question. I think that Alderson is doing this maybe as a test case. The CBA is coming soon.
I could be wrong, but no, I don’t trust the guy. I thought I would be okay with that, if the results were ok.
The result being a ring.
but i don’t know anymore. I feel dirty.
552
by wrveres on Nov 12, 2008 4:28 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
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