Hensley not ready to be that guy anymore

by jpleeg2 on Aug 26, 2007 1:14 PM PDT

Just read this quote on the Padres website, and found it a bit amusing.

"I'm not ready to be that guy anymore," Hensley said of being sent down.

Look here Clay... like it or not, you ARE that guy right now.

Until you come up here and pitch like you did in the 2nd half of last season, you're not going to be kept on the major league roster and in the rotation just because you've been there before.

Seems like he has a severe sense of entitlement here.

I'm not sure of his contract situation, but I wouldn't be surprised to see KT either attempt to deal him or non-tender him this offseason.

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Totally disagree

He should be pissed. He gave up two runs on six hits yesterday and this is the second time they've done it to him.

He can't be recalled for 10 days now unless someone goes on the DL. If CY is healthy, then that means we get Stauffer/Thompson/Whoever again in the opener against the Dodgers next Friday - you wouldn't rather see Clay start that game?

And let's not even get into what happens if CY can't go on Thursday.

I think this is a really crappy move.

by Winfield's Ghost on Aug 26, 2007 1:19 PM PDT 0 recs

BUT

As I said in the Open Thread from today's "game", they could DL Stauffer and recall Clay.

I just don't like the primadonna attitude from a guy who hasn't shown any consistency since the 2nd half of last year.

by jpleeg2 on Aug 26, 2007 1:23 PM PDT up 0 recs

One bad start in the last 4

I'll take that from the #5 guy.

As far as the primadonna stuff, he kept his mouth closed the first time it happened. He should be pissed now. It makes zero sense. I've said it all season - someone is making this personal with him and I think that's garbage.

by Winfield's Ghost on Aug 26, 2007 1:27 PM PDT up 0 recs

Consistency

Or lack thereof, is really the issue.

I don't disagree that this has become a bit personal, BUT, here's what he's done in his last 10 appearances for the Padres...

DATE OPP W L ERA IP H ER BB SO
APR 16 @CHC 0 1 12.21 5.0 11 10 3 1
APR 21 @COL 1 0 9.45 6.0 10 2 3 1
APR 27 LAD 0 0 7.86 6.1 6 2 4 5
MAY 02 WSH 0 0 7.62 2.0 2 1 1 1
JUL 26 @HOU 0 0 6.89 3.0 1 0 2 1
JUL 29 @HOU 0 0 7.11 0.1 1 1 0 0
JUL 31 ARI 0 0 6.49 3.0 1 0 0 4
AUG 04 SF 0 0 6.18 4.2 3 2 5 3
AUG 16 COL 1 0 6.70 5.0 6 6 4 2
AUG 25 @PHI 0 0 6.43 4.2 6 2 3 5

Totals 2 1 5.85 40.0 47 26 25 23

Look at his K/BB ratio... not good at all!

This team, and organization, focuses on strike throwers!! Case in point, our #1 pick this year is not a flamethrower, but a pitcher.

Clay has not been able to harness his stuff this year and string together any consistency at all with his control.

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one WG.

by jpleeg2 on Aug 26, 2007 1:39 PM PDT up 0 recs

I don't disagree at all with the stats

But give me a better candidate for the 5th starter. He's given us decent outings three of last four times out.

by Winfield's Ghost on Aug 26, 2007 1:42 PM PDT up 0 recs

Funny

Same discussion going on in 2 spots... let's keep it here now. LOL

I'll copy/paste for the sake of redundancy...

No clue

Don't have all the answers, nor would I ever claim to.

But, I just don't like his K/BB ratio. That will do NOTHING to endear you to this team (and organization).

I haven't taken part in the "Who should we call up from the minors to take that spot" discussion, but I have seen the names brought up.

Honestly, I'd give Hampson a shot. I'd rather have him pitch 5 than Clay, Stauffer, or Thompson right now. And that's the max that any of them are "good" for.

Hampson
This year, just to focus on one item....

40 innings pitched, 15 walks

by jpleeg2 on Aug 26, 2007 1:48 PM PDT up 0 recs

Brett Tomko

Couldn't be much worse than Stauffer. Just something to keep in mind.

by ExPadtriate on Aug 26, 2007 1:52 PM PDT up 0 recs

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Absolutely not!

by jpleeg2 on Aug 26, 2007 1:53 PM PDT up 0 recs

What's so bad about him?

He has shown effectiveness at certain times. I'm just saying he couldn't be much worse than what we have now if CY doesn't come back soon and they don't want to move Hampson or Cameron out of the pen

by ExPadtriate on Aug 26, 2007 2:00 PM PDT up 0 recs

LOL okay here now

They've shown no indication to move Hampson out of the bullpen - starting Ledezma showed that.

He wasn't sent down for performance reasons and that's why I think it's a crappy move. They got three decent starts out of him the last four times out and that's fair from a #5 guy. With 7 games this week against AZ and LA, sending him down with no viable candidate to take his spot is irresposible and it's detrimental to the team, no matter how KT and Bud feel about him.

by Winfield's Ghost on Aug 26, 2007 1:55 PM PDT up 0 recs

And looking at those stats

I don't see decent three out of the last four.

I see a pitcher who can't harness his stuff, and I will agree he has the stuff.

He's been going out there, throwing A LOT of pitches, giving up A LOT of walks, and taxing the pen.

I don't think Hampson would be able to go more than 5, BUT I don't forsee him suffering from a lack of control like Clay has been all year long.

by jpleeg2 on Aug 26, 2007 1:52 PM PDT up 0 recs

Oops

Sorry - didn't start on the 31st. Went three innings with no runs given up in relief.

by Winfield's Ghost on Aug 26, 2007 1:57 PM PDT up 0 recs

Full Season Stats For Clay

49 IP, 30 BB.... that's 5.5 BB per 9 innings.

Too many free passes.

Last season....
187 IP, 76 BB 3.7 BB per 9.

by jpleeg2 on Aug 26, 2007 1:58 PM PDT up 0 recs

that may be, but

on the offseason trade market for pitching he is GOLD

by Padres fanatic92014 on Aug 26, 2007 2:00 PM PDT up 0 recs

I think

you can make the stats say anything you want. If I looked at B Giles stats from just the first half, I could make a case for him sucking.

Throwing out the CO start, he got into the fifth in the other two starts, giving up just two runs in each game. Regardless of whatever his BB/K ratio is, that's what you're looking for in a starter, particularly when you have our bullpen.

by Winfield's Ghost on Aug 26, 2007 2:01 PM PDT up 0 recs

i agree

its ridiculous that we're giving up games this late in the season by taking chances with Stauffer and sending Hensley, who actually earned his spot in the rotation.

by Padres fanatic92014 on Aug 26, 2007 1:57 PM PDT up 0 recs

i agree

if i were clay, i would open up a can of whoop-ass on padres management

my girl got a girlfriend

by la padres on Aug 26, 2007 6:03 PM PDT up 0 recs

10 Days

I am pretty sure they can call him up on Sept 1st when the roster is expanded and anyone on the 40man can play.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. " ~Frank Sinatra

by Sammy G on Aug 27, 2007 11:09 AM PDT up 0 recs

Disagree wholeheartedly

With the 1 Bad Start out of the last 4 opinion.

Since he's only had 3 starts since May, I'll use those....

Last night:
4 2/3 IP, 6 H, 2 ER, 3 BB, 5 K....102 pitches, and didn't get out of the 5th.

August 16 vs Colorado:
5 IP, 6 H, 6 ER, 4 BB, 2 K....91 pitches

August 4 vs San Francisco:
4 2/3 IP, 3 H, 2 ER, 5 BB, 3 K.....75 pitches, and didn't get out of the 5th.

None of those are overly impressive.

Last night, he burned himself out with a high pitch count because he couldn't consistenly thrown strikes.
August 16th, he gave up 6 ER in 5 IP, and again, threw A LOT of pitches (see the BB #)
August 4th, he was, I'll give him "decent" because he gave up only 2 ER in 4 2/3 IP, but again, he threw A LOT of pitches (see the BB #)

Like I said already, I don't have the answer as to who the #5 starter on this team should be...

My original statement was that Clay seems to have a huge sense of entitlement for a guy who cannot harness his control issues, and in this organization, that is KEY!!

by jpleeg2 on Aug 26, 2007 2:12 PM PDT 0 recs

Can you show me the stats

for the last starts by Stauffer, Ledezma and Thompson? Betting they are worse by quite a bit. Not sure any of them even got to the fifth and I feel confident they didn't get there giving up less than two runs or less.

I don't disagre with you about his attitude - by all accounts, he's a jerk.

But sending him down was irresponsible by the organization. His performance didn't warrant it.

by Winfield's Ghost on Aug 26, 2007 2:18 PM PDT up 0 recs

My original point

He's a jerk.... that's what I was saying.

I wasn't intending to get into a discussion about who should/shouldn't be the #5 starter for this team down the stretch....because there is NO easy answer to that.

But, since it went there, I pointed out what I believe is this organization's focus on the mound.... throwing strikes!

He just hasn't done it this year, plain and simple.

And yes, Stauffer, Ledezma, and Thompson have all been horrible.

One thing to consider, September 1st is next Saturday, so rosters will be expanding. I'm not sure if that precedes the 10-day rule or not when it comes to Clay.

by jpleeg2 on Aug 26, 2007 2:30 PM PDT up 0 recs

No I get that

I just think it's irresponsible for KT to send him down because he's a jerk when KT can't offer a suitable replacement.

Good pt about Sept 1st - not sure how that works, either.

by Winfield's Ghost on Aug 26, 2007 2:36 PM PDT up 0 recs

Accepting that he's a jerk.....

I don't think that's why KT sent him down.

I can see why they did it today. They were bringing up Stauffer to start, knowing that he hadn't had much success at all this year.

So, they couldn't send down anyone from the pen, because they figured (correctly) that they'd need innings from those guys today.

I simply don't know who, on the roster, would have gone down if it wasnt't Clay today.

And as far as the "not having a plan", again, we'll just have to agree to disagree (respectfully of course).

For all the second guessing that KT gets (see Milty & Hairston most recently), it sure does seem like he's pretty much always had a plan.

I do believe that's why we're fans, and he's a GM....haha!!

by jpleeg2 on Aug 26, 2007 2:47 PM PDT up 0 recs

Ledezma

If it had been me, I would've sent him down. He's been used sparingly - not exactly sure why he's been kept around. I know they used him today, but they could've tossed anyone out there for an inning or two.

Unless they are planning to start HIM on Friday - and then I think we've just brought the entire argument full circle, haven't we?:)

by Winfield's Ghost on Aug 26, 2007 3:59 PM PDT up 0 recs

Ledezma

Not sure if he has any options left.

Even if he did though ,and they sent him down, who woulda gone out there in his place today?

I believe we both made the same point today during the game... that Black was doing the right thing by keeping Stauffer out there to take his lumps, and then trying to minimize the other guys he used.

So, if Ledezma wouldn't have been there today, Black would have had to use another arm today.... not good with the series vs the D-Bags starting manana.

by jpleeg2 on Aug 26, 2007 5:09 PM PDT up 0 recs

And I'm not saying those stats are great

They aren't. But sending him down without a plan is ridiculous.

by Winfield's Ghost on Aug 26, 2007 2:20 PM PDT up 0 recs

Why is Clay complaining?

He'll be up September 1st, when they expand the roster anyway.

by jbox on Aug 26, 2007 5:16 PM PDT 0 recs

Bus

He doesn't want to ride that damn bus anymore, remember? That's the real issue.

by Jonny Dub on Aug 26, 2007 5:38 PM PDT up 0 recs

Clay isn't complaining

He is just accepting the fact that he isn't the player he used to be.

by sdpads24 on Aug 26, 2007 5:36 PM PDT 0 recs

does this mean young is starting on thurs?

who else could it be, unless kt makes a waiver deal?

by enginedown on Aug 27, 2007 12:09 AM PDT 0 recs

This is unbelievable....

I don't really need to get deep into the argument because Winfields Ghost very adequately handled that task.

The one thing that matters to me at this point in the season is wins. Plain and simple. The last three games Clay has started have ended in Padre wins.

And I don't want to read any crap about how "well, he only went 4.2 innings" in two of those games. In both of those games he had only given up two runs and sure as hell didn't ASK to be taken out.

As for whether or not he's a jerk...or if he likes to hit the P.B. bars and hook up with chicks...honestly...why does anyone give a SHIT?? Oh, a pro athlete that has an ego! That's a first. A pro athlete that likes to go bar-hopping and hit on women! That's never happened before.

The fact of the matter is this...until KT comes up with someone that's better for the fifth spot...Clay is our guy. He's our best chance of winning every fifth day. Why aren't we supporting him instead of ripping him all the time? I don't get it.

Seven of our next ten games are against the first place D-Backs and we're bitching about whether or not we like a pitchers personality? And now our front office has sent him back down giving us no viable options for the fifth spot in the rotation?? This where the focus is right now?

by Drama on Aug 27, 2007 7:00 AM PDT 0 recs

I dont understand...

....why people don't like this demotion, at worst its going to be a push. At best someone from AA is called up (cuz the AAA guys suck just as bad as clay) and pulls a K-Rod for us. Clay was not demoted because of his attitude, its because he is not pitching well. The poster was stating that in response to the demotion he was copping an attitude, not the other way around!

The team winning the game a pitcher starts does NOT mean that pitcher is doing a good job. It just means he is not doing a horrible job, and even that is not 100% accurate. We can do better than Clay, on the field, as much as we all love him off the field.

Also there is at least one viable option:
Joshua Geer (don't laugh)

Also, whats this whole "without a plan" thing? That makes no sense. I'm SURE he has a plan, just be patient. Do you honestly think there is no plan? Do you think he just randomly sent him down without thinking about it? Should KT give you a call after every move just to comfort you? Be patient.

"sure as hell didn't ASK to be taken out." - I disagree. He was not pitching well, in a sense that IS asking to be taken out. If he had been left in those numbers may very well look much worse. I guess in the heat of a pennant race you are supposed to let pitchers pitch their 5 innings even if their arm is tapped. Throwing 102 pitches in 4.2 innings is a clear sign a pitcher is struggling. I would argue them pulling him out before 5 innings was a main reason for victory in both of the 4.2 inning starts, as they both ended out as 1 run games and he was struggling to find the plate both times, and all inherited runners were stranded.

by TheDude on Aug 27, 2007 2:31 PM PDT 0 recs

The Dude

Did you think throwing Tim Stauffer yesterday was a good plan?

by Drama on Aug 27, 2007 2:35 PM PDT up 0 recs

Hold on

the question was if KT had "a plan", throwing "good plan" in there changes the whole converstation. I don't think it was a good idea to have 5 years of shitty drafts that got us into this mess.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. " ~Frank Sinatra

by Sammy G on Aug 27, 2007 2:53 PM PDT up 0 recs

Excellent point.

by Drama on Aug 27, 2007 2:57 PM PDT up 0 recs

Seriously

we could have Justin Verlander instead of Matt Bush. Fuck.

by sdsuaztec4 on Aug 27, 2007 3:03 PM PDT up 0 recs

No offense Drama

But who else was gonna start yesterday?

Hindsight is always 20-20....

If Stauffer had gone out there yesterday and:
-Gone 4 & 2/3 innings
-Gave up 2 ER
-Walked 5 batters
-We still lose the game
-Burn out our pen (which is what Clay has done)

...would you still second guess starting him?

These are my points (in this order):
(1) Our options are limited right now...no argument there.
(2) To continue to be an option, Clay needs to cut down on his walks (hence his pitch count), and therefore stop taxing the pen every time he starts.
(3) He was sent down yesterday because we needed arms in the pen...not because he's a prick.
(4) KT has a plan...not sure what it is, but he has a plan. Give him credit for knowing what he's doing...I think he's earned it!
(5) Clay making statements such as the one he made are not going to endear himself to ANYONE, whether or not KT/Bud already don't like him.

by jpleeg2 on Aug 27, 2007 3:56 PM PDT up 0 recs

No offense taken.

This has been a good argument today...always makes for a fun day on GLB.

jpleeg2...this actually wasn't a call made in hindsight. I've been ripping Stauffer all along. Him almost blowing an 11-run lead against Houston should have been enough for us to know not to start him again.

I really wanted to see Jack Cassel given another opportunity...I think he had earned it when he took over for Ledezma in Cincy.

As for Clay bitching about getting sent down AGAIN...I WANT him to complain a little. I'm glad he cares and wants to stay with the big club.

And I kiss KT's ass as much as anyone on this site. If he pulls someone better than Hensley out of his ass to start Friday I'll be the first guy to apologize at length. Deal?

by Drama on Aug 27, 2007 5:52 PM PDT up 0 recs

Pulling a pitcher out of someones ass.

Here are the pitchers that have cleared waivers and can be traded to any team.

Jose Contreras
Kyle Farnsworth
Odalis Perez
Josh Towers
Steve Trachsel

Farnsworth isn't a starter and Perez and Trachsel suck ass. Towers and Contreras have shown strong starts at least at one point fairly recently. I don't know what this all means though.

by sdsuaztec4 on Aug 27, 2007 6:10 PM PDT up 0 recs

No apology necessary

Like you said, just a good conversation amongst fans.

by jpleeg2 on Aug 27, 2007 6:15 PM PDT up 0 recs

Well...

I'm actually hoping that I get the chance to apologize...hopefully KT has something up his sleeve that we're all missing.

by Drama on Aug 27, 2007 7:27 PM PDT up 0 recs

I agree

but I think the main reason was that Hensley would have been useless until the 30th and we want our bullpen stacked for the D-Back series, so you want to keep all the guys in the bullpen up with the club.

by jbox on Aug 27, 2007 3:28 PM PDT up 0 recs

Without a plan

When I say "without a plan" - what I'm talking about is having a somewhat proven fifth starter in arguably the most important week of the season. It seems odd to me that you would throw an untested guy out there in the opener against LA.

I don't disagree with anything that's been said about Hensley for the long term. He's not getting better and I'd certainly think that the fifth slot will be a major priority as soon as the offseason is over.

I understand why Stauffer had to start yesterday - the injury to CY screwed things up. But I'm not sure how keeping a guy like Ledezma in any way stacks our bullpen for four games against AZ when there has been an unwillingness to use him and he's been pretty bad. If he's out of options, I guess that's something to consider.

It's just a curious move to me - if there was some hotshot at AAA or even AA that they wanted to see, then I could maybe see it. But if we see someone like Thompson or Stauffer again, then, in my eyes, it makes very little sense. Throwing Thompson or Stauffer isn't a push - it's a downgrade, even from Hensley.

by Winfield's Ghost on Aug 27, 2007 4:36 PM PDT up 0 recs

And I can't believe

I'm in the position of being a "Hensley Lover." I never saw this in my future.

DAMMIT, SELF!!!

by Winfield's Ghost on Aug 27, 2007 4:39 PM PDT up 0 recs

We seem to forget

that Wells force his release, not KT. With his piss poor performances during the year he needed to become the swing-man/6th starter, and he refused. Clay is better than Wells, and so is Mike Thompson. There I said it.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. " ~Frank Sinatra

by Sammy G on Aug 27, 2007 4:48 PM PDT up 0 recs

Mike Thompson Lover

by Winfield's Ghost on Aug 27, 2007 4:54 PM PDT up 0 recs

Hensley Lover

hahaha!!!

by jpleeg2 on Aug 27, 2007 6:14 PM PDT up 0 recs

LOL

by Winfield's Ghost on Aug 27, 2007 7:09 PM PDT up 0 recs

Oh, the irony

that Wells will probably be the guy starting for LA on Friday night.

by Winfield's Ghost on Aug 27, 2007 4:56 PM PDT up 0 recs

Irony lover.

actually it isn't irony, I would say that is fortunate.

Can't wait for Wells to walk Milton on four pitches, then hang a curveball to A-Gon that he puts into the beach, and him getting into a fight with home plate ump.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. " ~Frank Sinatra

by Sammy G on Aug 27, 2007 5:02 PM PDT up 0 recs