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Bring in the Fences?

UT: Fences may be altered at Petco

"How can you watch the ball die in left-center and right-center on a nightly basis and not think about it?" Alderson said yesterday. "But whether we do something or not is something we will not address until the offseason."

Let me preface this by saying that the Padres really just need to make a decision and stick with it. Everytime the offense goes in the tank, we can't keep second guessing Petco. On the other hand maybe our pitchers are getting away with too many mistakes in our park. Either way, both teams have to play in the same park with the same ground rules. It's fair. Once a decision is made, the Padres, the Execs and the fans are just going to have to live with it.

Myself, I like a balanced offense and defense. If the Padres can figure out a way to make Petco Park a non-issue in the outcome of a game then I say we bring in the fences. That's my opinion. If they could do some study where they figure out how many home runs the average ballpark gives up and then make Petco like that, then I give it the thumbs up. I just don't want to pull out my conversion chart everytime I hear a Padres stat. "Well Adrian Gonzalez hit 30 home runs, that's 38 in any other park".

I'm not sure what that study would entail. Do we even know what is keeping the ball from going out? Is it that there is too much moisture in the air? Is it the wind currents? Is it the size of the field? Is it the shape of the field? Shouldn't we try to figure this out before we start messing with the fences? Let's put up some of those tin rooster weather vanes, weather balloons and those Doppler radar contraptions. Let's get some scientists and professors out here from UCSD and SDSU. John Moores has given those schools enough money, let's start pulling some favors. Have them cruise in with a bunch of interns and weather equipment. Make it a competition between all the universities in San Diego.

It seems fans want to see more home runs whether it's bringing in the fences or bringing in a power hitter. I think the idea of getting a power hitter is a pipe dream. I'm guessing there are only about ten major league hitters that could hit 30 or more home runs a year playing in Petco. Those 10 players are going to be really expensive and are not going to want to come here to watch their power numbers dry up. So it seems like a better idea just to get well rounded players and make the field play like other fields.

I guess the other question is, are we sacrificing home runs but getting a more exciting and entertaining game overall? Are there more extra base hits with the vast alleys? Is that more exciting for the average baseball fan? Are we at a disadvantage when we travel because too much focus is put on pitching and defense? If we bring in the fences will more fans come to the games and increase attendance and profits?

Hopefully a final decision will be made in the upcoming off season, so that 30 years from now we aren't still talking about tweaking the ballpark. I'll be fine with any decision they make, it is kind of nice to have something quirky about your ballpark. You can also talk about it like it's some living entity that swallows home run balls.

We've voted before, but let's vote again in the comments section.

Poll
Should we make changes?
Bring in power hitters
9 votes
Everything is fine
28 votes
Bring in the fences
14 votes

51 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 34 comments

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Comments

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Altering Petco Park....
This is such a ridiculous idea, I'm actually angry that Sandy even commented on it.

The team that has been built, the minor league system being built...all have been put together with Petco Park in mind. Now after four seasons at Petco, management is going to just completely change the entire business plan?

The bitching and moaning about Petco Park has become exhausting. Enough. I can never understand this view that the difficulty hitting homeruns at Petco only affects the San Diego Padres. The fences aren't rolled forward 30 feet between innings for the visitors. Remember last Saturday night against the Cardinals? Pujols at the plate with the bases loaded. He hit a bomb. His first thought was that it was going to be a second-deck grand slam. Instead, it died at the warning track and should (thanks, Terrmel) have been an out. It works both ways.

What worries me about Alderson's comment is that he's obviously floating an idea out there to see what the reaction will be. This looks to me like something that comes down to making a change to sell more tickets because the "fans" want to see more homeruns and scoring. Well, screw that. I'm a Padre fan. I appreciate great pitching and defense. I want to see my guys win...not just hit a bunch of homeruns.

I blame Phil Nevin and Ryan Klesko for this entire thing.

by Drama on May 18, 2007 7:06 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Nevin & Klesko
To be fair, Petco really did kill Nevin's power. Klesko on the other hand, I lay a good chunk of the blame on the fans. We (as a whole) got it into his head that to be succesful he needed to be a power hitter. He actually put up pretty good numbers while he was healthy here. Unfortunately because of a couple seasons with big homerun numbers, that just wasn't accpetable.

Even so, they shouldn't have bitched som uch

by osbug on May 18, 2007 7:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nevin & Klesko
It was just their defeatist attitude about the place that pissed me off. Did Petco kill Nevin's power? Yes. Did it kill Klesko's? Yes. But what about Brian Giles? In his four full seasons in Pittsburgh, his HR totals were 39, 35, 37 & 38. The best he's done at Petco so far is 23 in 2004. Maybe I'm wrong...but I don't remember hearing Brian rip Petco they way those two guys did.

by Drama on May 18, 2007 8:03 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Aye
I agree 100%

by osbug on May 18, 2007 8:07 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What's wrong with selling more tickets
to fans?  Fans bring excitement and money.  Those things bring better players.

People like to see home runs, they are exciting.  The park would still be fair, if the fences are moved in.  Both teams would have an equal shot at hitting a home run, just like they do now.  There might just be more of them.

I'd be all for forgetting this argument too, but it's just not going to go away, ever!  You're sick of the bitching and moaning, I'm sick of it too, and by moving in the fences maybe it would stop... maybe.  I don't think it will otherwise.

Were you okay with them moving in the fence last year?  

by jbox on May 18, 2007 8:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fans
But will the fans come out if we are hitting a ton of home runs and losing?

I was pretty apathetic about them moving the right center fence in. It was in a spot that very few balls even get to.

by osbug on May 18, 2007 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Petco
Geoff Young wrote an article about Petco over at Hardball Times last December. From reading that article, and just from what I have seen in the last few years, I would be very careful about making changes to Petco. The two things that stood out the most to me from Geoff's article was that Petco in it's first three seasons did not play significantly different than Qualcomm in it's last three seasons. The other things was how much home runs jumped last season. Petco went from dead last in home runs to 16th

What this says to me is that it is not just the park and it's dimensions that are stiffling the offense at Petco. Have you ever watched a day game at Petco? The ball sure flies out of there. Remember the game last year where we got into a slugfest with the Cardinals, and the record for longest homerun at Petco park was set like three times? I would say weather has a big effect here. But, like jbox says, we don't know the how or why of the weather.  What if we move all the fences in, and after all the downtown construction finishes, everything changes and we are left with a Phillies or Rangers-like ballpark? Do we really want that?

Like I have mentioned before, last year we had one of the best road offenses in the league, so I am not sure that our focus on pitching and defense is hurting us on the road. So far this year has been a little different story, but we will have to see how that will play out. I think we just don't have the ideal team for Petco yet. We are getting there though. Obviously Adrian isn't affected too much by the Petco factor, there have to be other players out there like that.

I just don't see the advantage right now of bringing in the fences. We have three winning seasons in a row, looking towards a fourth, and are winning consistently at home. Why turn it into a slugfest? Unless it really starts hurting us, leave it be.

by osbug on May 18, 2007 7:23 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Conversion chart night
They should do a promotion around it.  Hand em out to the first 30,000 fans.

by thenerdhater on May 18, 2007 7:55 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Petco
Pretty much agree with what Drama and osbug said.  I just don't see why you start screwing with this now.  I'm tired of the discussion and like Drama said, it's frustrating to watch Alderson toss the idea out there because you have to assume that's a calculated move on his part to gauge reaction.  As long as the team continues to make it an issue, it's going to stay in the players' heads.

And what if you do move the fences in and, uh, nothing dramatically changes?  Does the discussion get revisited again?  "We didn't move them in far enough.  Hmmm.  Maybe we need just another couple feet.  We'll look at that in the off season."

Ridiculous.  Just get over it.  Leave it alone.  

by Winfield's Ghost on May 18, 2007 8:09 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Totally agree
and that's pretty much what happened.  They moved in the center field fence last year and now they are thinking, it's not enough.  So it might just keep happening.

I'm pretty much saying, if we're going to do it, let's do it this year and do it right.  Then just say that's it, no more changes until Petco is dust.

I just don't think it's sac religious to move in the fences.  The way Petco is playing now was not their initial intention.  They wanted it a pitching friendly park, but they over did it.  So if you can, then fix it.

Remember they brought the fences in at Jack Murphy too.

by jbox on May 18, 2007 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Murph
Yeah, I remember them putting in those fake fences at the Murph and I didn't like it.  I loved seeing balls hit those big green walls and bounce all over the place.

The problem, for me, in moving the fences again is that it's going to be tough to take anyone at their word when they say "That's it.  We're done."  Because it seems like they've already said that twice - once, when the park opened and then again after moving the CF fence.  

by Winfield's Ghost on May 18, 2007 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

True
There is nothing wrong with bringing in the fences, if it is done for the right reasons. I don't think bringing in the fences just to see more homeruns is the right reason. Homeruns do not guarantee wins or better baseball. And like you say, if you are going to do it, do it right. The problem there is I don't think anyone knows how to do it right. What if we bring the fences in too far and it turns in to a 81 game homerun derby? Do we move the fences back out? I don't believe there is a such thing as the perfect ballpark.

by osbug on May 18, 2007 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

perfect ballpark
Yes, yes... I agree.  Part of the charm of going to games (unlike football or basketball) is that each park is different, its dimensions and idiosyncracies.  

by ABY on May 18, 2007 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh thank goodness!
I am so relieved to hear this initial reaction.  All I keep hearing recently is 'move the fences, move the fences', I actually was going to find a way to bring it up today...
I have no where near the baseball smarts as most of the people who write here but I am so relieved to hear some of my favorite bloggers whose opinions I totally respect, to also be against this move.
I don't understand how it can possibly help.  The away team will not notice?  The (old) park dimensions will be in their head and they won't be able to knock it out too?
I lurrrve the pitchers game.  I love the stolen bases, the doubles and triples, the manufacturing of runs and the diving stops/catches.  The home run ball is great too but not ALL the time.  It is one of the reasons I don't like to watch the jankees play...  there can be a beautiful game going on  only to be entirely negated by one swing of the bat.  It reminds me of the circus where people line up to swing the hammer and make the bell ring; there is no art in that!
I realize that the people that count the money rely much more on the casual fan and will always cater to the firework show that they want to see...  isn't that how we got in this whole steroid mess is the first place?
I have a question for those more connected than I...  It seems to me, run scoring in general has been higher this year than of recent.  Is this true or am I just paying more attention?

by ABY on May 18, 2007 8:25 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

i think the problem lies in
human nature.  Other teams come here by our rules, but then they leave.  So they don't carry Petco mentality with them.

When the Padres go 0 for a trillion and then the Reds leave town.  The next team comes in fresh, and our hitters are still lamenting over the 0 for...then try and overcompensate and start beating balls into the ground.

2005 (Pads outhomered by 19%)
Visiting team HRs: 64
Home team HRs: 54

2006 (Pads outhomered by 23%)
Visiting team HRs: 92
Home team HRs: 75

2007 (argument breaks down, Visitors outhomered by 200%!)
Visiting team HRs: 5
Home team HRs: 15

2007 may be the year it proves that we shouldn't mess with the fences...or maybe it is just a function of a much deeper and consistent pitching staff, not to mention filthy bullpen.

However, if you look hard at 2006 and 2005, when you look at the disparity in our "home park" with home runs, either our team was not built for power, therefore you shouldn't expect it, or our hitters despite the fact that we play in the same park as our visitors, are noticably "affected", and on a homestand are much more vulnerable to dry streaks whereas a visiting team can "escape" Petco only having to endure one series.

I for one am not in favor of moving fences in, but to me, seems very unfair that an enviromnent would play a factor in ones stats so dramatically.

What if Hank Aaron played in Petco his whole life, would he be the Home Run king?  Would we be adjusting his numbers such that he would be the "projected" Home run King in another ball park.

Maybe we should template ballparks like they do in NASCAR for parity.

I dont know, you can't win either way.

by bktabinga on May 18, 2007 8:33 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

What if...
What if, that is the beauty of the game.  What if pitchers didn't have to pitch at coors field, what if everyone had a great bullpen and didn't have to go seven or eight innings.  What if Trevor closed for the yankees?

NOW we need Richard...!

by ABY on May 18, 2007 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Homeruns
Again, I think everyone should go read Geoff's article over at Hardball Times. One thing he mentions is that the Padres the last few years have been an oddity in that they have been outscored at home, but were still coming out with a winning record.

Once again, I point to last years team and their great road offense(I should just put that in my sig), and would have to say that Petco didn't seem to affect them overall, besides surpressing their offensive numbers at home. But it did the same thing for opponents. Homeruns are not the only way to score runs.

My favorite what if...how many homeruns would Ted Williams have hit if he played in Yankee stadium with it's short right field instead of Fenway with it's huge right field. The guy would have hit 1000 homeruns!

by osbug on May 18, 2007 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Geoff's Link
I know I saw it earlier, but can't find it now.  Can you supply the link?

by jbox on May 18, 2007 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am with Drama and Osbug on this
No need to add to what they said since they covered it perfectly for me.

As a bit of a geek though - I do like the idea of the weather study!!

Christina

by Christina on May 18, 2007 9:03 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

My opinion
We move the fences back about 40 or 50 feet just to screw with people.
I am part of a team within a team. And the MVP of my team is named Kory.

by Dalton on May 18, 2007 9:21 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Awesome
I am all for this. Get rid of the Bleacher seats and let the park at the park run right up to the field. It could be like a modern day Polo Grounds. I want a 500ft Center Field fence.

by osbug on May 18, 2007 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Binoculars
for everybody!  Yeah...

by ABY on May 18, 2007 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't just move the fences...
Make them moveable! Have a fence that starts about 18 feet closer than what they are now. Every inning, they move back 2 feet.

Or even better, have them move very very slowly like a minute hand so that at the end of 2 1/2 hours they're all the way back and then start coming in again if the game starts going long.

by Dex on May 18, 2007 9:41 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I like that second idea
it's sudden death time, bring in the fences!

by jbox on May 18, 2007 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Top of the 19th
The fences are at 100 feet...a pop-up out of the infield wins the game.  Marcus gets on Brian's shoulders and they assemble like Voltron.
I am part of a team within a team. And the MVP of my team is named Kory.

by Dalton on May 18, 2007 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fences
Even better, make it like Hoggwarts, and have the outfield and it's walls shift constantly and randomly. Giles is playing short right field one moment, and deep right center the next. Or Juan Pierre is chasing donw a Kouz drive to center and all of a sudden runs into the center field wall that just came out of the ground.

by osbug on May 18, 2007 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

ha ha
lets have spikes built in too, like the old chariots...  just in LF about knee high!

by ABY on May 18, 2007 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

how about take the wrigley approach
and put spikes in the outfield wall.  maybe a pile of suntan lotion in right.

by bktabinga on May 18, 2007 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Totally off-topic here:
Marcus Giles turns 29 today. Happy Birthday, Marcus!

by Drama on May 18, 2007 12:47 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I bet...
he's wearing his birthday suit right now.

by jbox on May 18, 2007 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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